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Is Taiwan a country?
- Thread starter conkermaniac
- Start date
Re: Re: Re: Re: Is Taiwan a country?
The Florida Keys (small islands south of florda) tried to gain independence once. Instead of resisting, the president said "Ok. Sure. But, since you're independent, we're going to cut off the power, telephone, cable, etc... I'm sure you can support that by yourself". The Keys then decided it wasn't the best decision, and now they're still part of the US.
The Florida Keys (small islands south of florda) tried to gain independence once. Instead of resisting, the president said "Ok. Sure. But, since you're independent, we're going to cut off the power, telephone, cable, etc... I'm sure you can support that by yourself". The Keys then decided it wasn't the best decision, and now they're still part of the US.
What support? You mean by making threats, blowing alot of hot air and posturing at the Chinese hoping they will not taking Taiwan by force? How long is that going to work?
US doesn't support or respect Taiwanese people's right to decide because it is opposed to Taiwan independence. At least Nukes will be better supporters of independence than US.
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That hot air will go a long ways. If China attacked Taiwan, the USA would jump in and defend Taiwan and China would probably not win too easily so its not worth it. That "hot air" you refer to amounts to more than the Taiwanese military.
Likewise the USA in secret does want Taiwan independance but they don't think its worth the risk of upsetting China on the issue.
WHy does the US get nervous when Taiwan tries to provoke China? Isn't that obvious. Its not because the US is afraid Taiwan will take over China, thats laughable. Its because if Taiwan goes too far, the USA is afraid China will attack it and the USA will have to come to Taiwan's aid. Right now, China won't attack Taiwan if its not provoked enough, both the USA and China know this and so does Taiwan, that why its brave enough to take some cheap pokes.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Is Taiwan a country?
Well in that case, I guess the Feds would be begging us not to leave since Texas has and controls it's own resources. As an example/proof of such, you may remember that California was complaining Texas was charging them too much for electrical power..
Well in that case, I guess the Feds would be begging us not to leave since Texas has and controls it's own resources. As an example/proof of such, you may remember that California was complaining Texas was charging them too much for electrical power..
Re: Re: Re: Re: Is Taiwan a country?
Do you even know the history of Hawai'i? It was decided (through an official survey by the US government) that the Hawaiian people were loyal to the queen. But then, because of the annexationists in Congress, the United States decided to overthrow the queen and make Hawaii a republic. This new "republic" was essentially a joke (and I suspect the United States did this on purpose), and the leadership allowed Hawaii to be annexed very quickly. If this was truly representative of the wish of the Hawaiian people, then why did so few native inhabitants turn up at the raising of the US flag after Hawaii was annexed? You see, even then, the European-Americans had controlled Hawaii's politics.
I know that Hawaii wasn't a very good example, but none of you guys have probably never heard of Nagorno-Karabakh or Puntland. Puntland and Somaliland, by the way, have their own government, and are recognized by the inhabitants living there. (We're talking about Somalia here, in case you haven't figured it out.) Can they be considered a country, although they are not recognized by a single other country? Well, if you believe in Taiwan independence, then you should similarly believe in the independence of all these regions.
Then you could look at New Zealand...Niue and the Cook Islands are self-governing territories with free association with New Zealand. NZ has no influence over the administration of these territories, but these islands don't even consider themselves a country -- why should you? (This is directed towards the people who think that a separate government necessarily means independence.)
And to the Australians...have you ever considered Norfolk Island a country? Oh, they do want to be independent (and yes, in this case, I have done somewhat of a survey of the descendants of the mutineers). I know one site on the web (well, considering the island has a population of a couple thousand, you won't expect to find that many websites anyway) that accuse Australia of "bloodless genocide" against the islanders by destroying their culture. I know of another (probably the biggest site from Norfolk Island) that adamantly denies that the island belongs in any way to Australia.
Mahatir is a hell lot better than Wahid or Estrada, both of which were democratically elected.
Wow! I never knew the United States killed Buddhist monks! But I assume you mean the Chinese government, to which I have NO allegiance whatsoever (but I support their actions anyway). Anyawy, do you think that the United States had the right to go after Osama bin Laden and his Al-Qaeda group? Certainly! So why does China not have the right to go after these terrorists? They are not the peaceful, innocent monks that you imagine them to be. My Chinese sucks, so I don't know what the Chinese government excuse is for these attacks on monks, but I do know that they support terrorism against the Han Chinese.
Everybody knows that the Chinese people are peaceful. If you don't, then I suggest you study Chinese history. Even my History teacher, who is American, agrees. The Europeans are probably the most war-like of all. Because France, England, and Germany could never stop fighting they ended up developing incredible weapons. China and the other victims of imperialism were easily invaded by the European powers because they were peaceful people who lacked advanced weaponry.
The Chinese government will forever be firing missles "off the shore" of Taiwan. The government prefers to use meaningless threats like these, than force. I think it's quite obvious that they have the power to nuke Europe and North America. If they were really that evil, what haven't they done that already? If Mogadishu had the same power, do you think Washington and London would still exist? These Chinese people just don't like war.
Actually, Australia is not a continent. Oceania is.
Do you even know the history of Hawai'i? It was decided (through an official survey by the US government) that the Hawaiian people were loyal to the queen. But then, because of the annexationists in Congress, the United States decided to overthrow the queen and make Hawaii a republic. This new "republic" was essentially a joke (and I suspect the United States did this on purpose), and the leadership allowed Hawaii to be annexed very quickly. If this was truly representative of the wish of the Hawaiian people, then why did so few native inhabitants turn up at the raising of the US flag after Hawaii was annexed? You see, even then, the European-Americans had controlled Hawaii's politics.
I know that Hawaii wasn't a very good example, but none of you guys have probably never heard of Nagorno-Karabakh or Puntland. Puntland and Somaliland, by the way, have their own government, and are recognized by the inhabitants living there. (We're talking about Somalia here, in case you haven't figured it out.) Can they be considered a country, although they are not recognized by a single other country? Well, if you believe in Taiwan independence, then you should similarly believe in the independence of all these regions.
Then you could look at New Zealand...Niue and the Cook Islands are self-governing territories with free association with New Zealand. NZ has no influence over the administration of these territories, but these islands don't even consider themselves a country -- why should you? (This is directed towards the people who think that a separate government necessarily means independence.)
And to the Australians...have you ever considered Norfolk Island a country? Oh, they do want to be independent (and yes, in this case, I have done somewhat of a survey of the descendants of the mutineers). I know one site on the web (well, considering the island has a population of a couple thousand, you won't expect to find that many websites anyway) that accuse Australia of "bloodless genocide" against the islanders by destroying their culture. I know of another (probably the biggest site from Norfolk Island) that adamantly denies that the island belongs in any way to Australia.
Mahatir is a hell lot better than Wahid or Estrada, both of which were democratically elected.
Wow! I never knew the United States killed Buddhist monks! But I assume you mean the Chinese government, to which I have NO allegiance whatsoever (but I support their actions anyway). Anyawy, do you think that the United States had the right to go after Osama bin Laden and his Al-Qaeda group? Certainly! So why does China not have the right to go after these terrorists? They are not the peaceful, innocent monks that you imagine them to be. My Chinese sucks, so I don't know what the Chinese government excuse is for these attacks on monks, but I do know that they support terrorism against the Han Chinese.
Everybody knows that the Chinese people are peaceful. If you don't, then I suggest you study Chinese history. Even my History teacher, who is American, agrees. The Europeans are probably the most war-like of all. Because France, England, and Germany could never stop fighting they ended up developing incredible weapons. China and the other victims of imperialism were easily invaded by the European powers because they were peaceful people who lacked advanced weaponry.
The Chinese government will forever be firing missles "off the shore" of Taiwan. The government prefers to use meaningless threats like these, than force. I think it's quite obvious that they have the power to nuke Europe and North America. If they were really that evil, what haven't they done that already? If Mogadishu had the same power, do you think Washington and London would still exist? These Chinese people just don't like war.
Actually, Australia is not a continent. Oceania is.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Is Taiwan a country?
Chinese's history is basically 5000 years of war. Even my Chinese friends agree. He said that Chinese by nature do not live peace and they thrive upon gaining advantage during wartimes.
Your history teacher probably did not want to annoy you by disputing about the Chinese. After all, he probably can't cope with all the Chinese students protesting if he made said otherwise
And any real benign country will never be launching missiles with the intent of influencing the neighbouring country's election result. China just set a unprecedented example of such action
Chinese's history is basically 5000 years of war. Even my Chinese friends agree. He said that Chinese by nature do not live peace and they thrive upon gaining advantage during wartimes.
Your history teacher probably did not want to annoy you by disputing about the Chinese. After all, he probably can't cope with all the Chinese students protesting if he made said otherwise
And any real benign country will never be launching missiles with the intent of influencing the neighbouring country's election result. China just set a unprecedented example of such action
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Is Taiwan a country?
If China was frequently fighting, then certainly they would have saw the need to develop newer and better weapons. Yet they expected to fight the British with bows, spears, and swords. Not only does my history teacher say this, my history textbook says the exact same thing.
And as for gaining advantage during wartimes, that doesn't apply to only China. I have noticed that all Oriental people, whether it be Thailand, Malaysia, China, or South Korea thrive upon taking advantage of other people. I have also noticed that Asians are generally very dirty -- my classmates and teachers just can't comprehend why Asian people spit on the ground so often. It's a question of culture and attitudes.
Oh, and as for you being a descendant over 100 years -- yes that matters! I have found that KMT followers consider the entire Mainland China theirs -- a ridiculous assertion to make.
To Webdude: I suggest you put "China OR Taiwan" as a compromise in your country database, or better yet, give them an input box for them to fill in their country.
If China was frequently fighting, then certainly they would have saw the need to develop newer and better weapons. Yet they expected to fight the British with bows, spears, and swords. Not only does my history teacher say this, my history textbook says the exact same thing.
And as for gaining advantage during wartimes, that doesn't apply to only China. I have noticed that all Oriental people, whether it be Thailand, Malaysia, China, or South Korea thrive upon taking advantage of other people. I have also noticed that Asians are generally very dirty -- my classmates and teachers just can't comprehend why Asian people spit on the ground so often. It's a question of culture and attitudes.
Oh, and as for you being a descendant over 100 years -- yes that matters! I have found that KMT followers consider the entire Mainland China theirs -- a ridiculous assertion to make.
To Webdude: I suggest you put "China OR Taiwan" as a compromise in your country database, or better yet, give them an input box for them to fill in their country.
Webdude, in every single one of those instances, the Chinese were provoked. If you knew anything about World History, you would know that the Rape of Nanking has nothing to do with the Chinese aggression. The Japanese marched in and mercilessly killed civilians. Enlighten me....
I have noticed that in American public education, there is an extra emphasis on the Holocaust, yet the atrocities committed by the Japanese against the Chinese and the other Asian countries are totally ignored. Historically, there is no record of Hitler's "Final Solution", leading me to believe the Holocaust has been way overblown by the Jewish people to justify the creation of Israel. The supposed "gas chambers" are all badly out of proportion -- could they have been created after the Holocaust? I don't deny that there were forced labor camps where they were maltreated and shot if they refused to work -- but there is almost no concrete evidence that some of the described atrocities happened.
Anyway, back to the topic...The Cold War was not a war, and both the Chinese only participated in Korea and Vietnam because America started attacking first. China was afraid of two things -- that Communism would fall and that America would muster their way into China after conquering Vietnam and Korea. The Boxer Rebellion was a revolt against unfair Western Imperialism. Don't copy from Amazon.com next time (or wherever you got that list). :devious2:
I have noticed that in American public education, there is an extra emphasis on the Holocaust, yet the atrocities committed by the Japanese against the Chinese and the other Asian countries are totally ignored. Historically, there is no record of Hitler's "Final Solution", leading me to believe the Holocaust has been way overblown by the Jewish people to justify the creation of Israel. The supposed "gas chambers" are all badly out of proportion -- could they have been created after the Holocaust? I don't deny that there were forced labor camps where they were maltreated and shot if they refused to work -- but there is almost no concrete evidence that some of the described atrocities happened.
Anyway, back to the topic...The Cold War was not a war, and both the Chinese only participated in Korea and Vietnam because America started attacking first. China was afraid of two things -- that Communism would fall and that America would muster their way into China after conquering Vietnam and Korea. The Boxer Rebellion was a revolt against unfair Western Imperialism. Don't copy from Amazon.com next time (or wherever you got that list). :devious2:
I agree with Archbob 100%. The United States has this secret obligation to defend Taiwan, for some reason, but they really don't want to go to war with China. The US is fearful of the Chinese military force (and the nukes, of course). At the same time, China fears the US military (and the nukes, of course). So it's a stalemate. But I must say, Taiwan's infrastructure has deteriorated, as of late. I would attribute this to the geographic location of the island. It is prone to earthquakes, floods, and hurricanes, and recently, it's been hit more severely. China has even occasionally extended a helping hand, which is highly unusual.
Wow, I've been having political debates all day! At school, I was writing an essay for socialism.
The Chinese aren't peaceful people. They're forgetful people. The Japanese invaded China only a few decades ago, massacred thousands of people, and yet the people of this generation have basically forgotten that part of history, and now even pro-Japan, going crazy over everything Japanese. Pretty sad.
Like allanh said, China is basically 5000 years of war. Just take a look at how many dynasties were established over the years. That's only a very small fraction of all the wars the Chinese waged.
The thing is, every time a new dynasty comes to power, the people are very quick to forget the old dynasty. The only people that resists are the few rebels of the old dynasty. But eventually, they all die out. Mostly because they can't get enough support. The Chinese people doesn't really care who's at the throne, as long as they can go about their daily lives with no trouble. That's why they are easy to accept new powers.
Forgetful, they are, not peaceful. And not patriotic enough. Not unified... therefore, powerless. Weak.
Like allanh said, China is basically 5000 years of war. Just take a look at how many dynasties were established over the years. That's only a very small fraction of all the wars the Chinese waged.
The thing is, every time a new dynasty comes to power, the people are very quick to forget the old dynasty. The only people that resists are the few rebels of the old dynasty. But eventually, they all die out. Mostly because they can't get enough support. The Chinese people doesn't really care who's at the throne, as long as they can go about their daily lives with no trouble. That's why they are easy to accept new powers.
Forgetful, they are, not peaceful. And not patriotic enough. Not unified... therefore, powerless. Weak.
No, Japan however, is recognized by all the powerful nations of the world and didn't decide to break away from China because of a Chinese Civil war. Taiwan is not recognized by most of the world powers as a independant nation and China has never recognized their independance from the mainland. They broke off as a soveriegn nation because the KMT needed a place to run to and set up their own establishment. Many Taiwanese , especially in the older generations, still consider the Mainland as part of Taiwan just like how mainlanders claim Taiwan is part of China. The Mainland has more power and people, and eventually Taiwan will probably be absorbed back into the mainland, but as for now, nothing will be done.
