Is Taiwan a country?

[Toefur]

I don't see there being any point to arguing that Taiwan should (or is, anyway) part of China. If Taiwan has an independant government, an independant ecomomy, and the people of Taiwan don't want Taiwain to be part of China... then I don't really see there as being any good reason for it being part of China (and as such, 'not being a country').

Of course I don't know the History, but it still depends. If it was rather recently that Taiwan was officially part of China, then perhaps it should be reincorporated, but if it was a while ago then it seriously doesn't matter.

China's got plenty of people, and enough money. What's the point in insisting Taiwan be part of China?

As for many countries and organisations not officialy recognising Taiwan as a country, the only reason they do that is because they don't want to piss of China.

 

[stabme]

as long as those little plastic things say "made in taiwan", yeah.. i consider it a country..

 

[loggerheads]

If as I've just read, it has an entirely seperate economy, seperate democratically elected government, seperate constitution and is seperated by water, then for me it's a country. The plastic things are also most important. As for the history, it seems to me to be rather irrelevant, it wasn't so many years ago that 1/4 of the word was part of the British Empire, but India is now a country, so is Australia etc. I don't see that it's a big deal whether or not any political leaders who don't wish to antagonise China recognise it or not, if it looks like a dog and it barks and fetches sticks but someone bigger than me tells me it's a cat, I still know it;s a dog, and it still acts like a dog.
That was an awful, convoluted analogy. but still.

 

[Marphy]

Sometimes,what you know isnt the trueth.

 

[Webdude]

Re: Re: Re: Is Taiwan a country?

Originally posted by conkermaniac
And you know what else? Hawaii is a country too. Many of the native islanders want their independence, and they are being denied that right because of two things: the US government and the fact that they have become a minority on their own island!

Oh geez Conk...you're really digging yourself in. Hawaii accepted itself into the Union on the offer, it was never conquered.

In the U.S., each state is setup to be it's own country. On a vote, and state can seperate from the U.S. as well. Texas itself can do that, but it also has the option of dividing into 5 smaller states. Texas falls under a different set of laws, hence it's fairly independent of the Feds. However, that's besides the point, the states of the Union are not held hostage as they all have the option of voting themselves out of the Union. Does Taiwan have that option?

 

[VLC]

Is CHINA a country?

Originally posted by conkermaniac
The atlases certainly do not represent the opinion of the world leaders.

Who gives a crap what they say!
Theyre idiots an corrupt, an they'll be dead some day,

What matters is what the PEOPLE say, an most in Taiwan say its a country. Case closed, surely, fellow members.....?

Then again, you being a robot of your government, tend to murder people whom you disagree with, like even Buddist monks!

And you know what else? Hawaii is a country too. Many of the native islanders want their independence,

Oh really, an , er, when did you carry out that public survey, in order for you to know that for SURE?
Or maybe your'e a mind reader, or psychic perhaps....?

Oh, and Webdude, the MADE IN TAIWAN tags mean nothing.

WRONG - it's an official world business term recognised by the UN, world-bank, an world trade organistion, an designates origin of manufacture for export - you obviously know nothing about business

 

[allanh]

Re: Re: Re: Is Taiwan a country?

Originally posted by conkermaniac
The atlases certainly do not represent the opinion of the world leaders. In fact, ONLY the backward nations accept Taiwan as a country. For example, all the dirt-poor Latin American nations recognize it as a country. A couple of African countries do as well. They recognize Taiwan as a country, not because they are interested in the island, but because they are interested in Taiwan's money.

Conk, countries in the world don't recognize Taiwan because they want to do business with China and China is holding hostage of their commercial advantage. Do you really think that other countries would care about China's barking if it has not sold those cheap products overseas?

Originally posted by conkermaniac
And you know what else? Hawaii is a country too. Many of the native islanders want their independence, and they are being denied that right because of two things: the US government and the fact that they have become a minority on their own island!

Hawaii does not have an army and it does not have its own constitution. And its people certainly don't care as much about their claiming independence as Taiwanese people.
Also, America is a MUCH MUCH better government than the Chinese one. Of course being part of its citizen (like Hawaiian) is pretty darn good.
If we have a referendum in Taiwan, we would vote for either of 2 choices :
1.Declare independence (note I use the word "declare', but we are already functioning as an independent country and we only have to declare the fact)
2.If there is any other choice, it will be joining US as the 51st state

Originally posted by conkermaniac
And a question allanh, are you the descendant of a wealthy family from mainland China or are you a native islander?

I am neither. I am a Taiwanese decendent of over one hundred year. If you want to go further back, Taiwanese come from a varienty of locations, including Phillipines, Indonesia and various other countries, not just from China.
Furthermore, where a Taiwanese decend from does NOT matter. If it does, then all the Australians and Americans should now go under British ruling whilst Singapore and Malaysia should also be part of China.

 

[allanh]

Originally posted by conkermaniac
Heh, it is doubtful that China will start World War III. They are not an aggressive country, and will only attack if provoked.

that's total BS.
Claiming an evil country as being benign:biggrin2:

Who's the one shooting missiles when its neighbour was holding democratic elections in 1996?

 

[allanh]

Originally posted by Archbob
Read Chinese History, Taiwan was a part of China officially until the KMT got kicked out by the CCP and decided to break Taiwan away from its mother country. CHina never accepted or recognized this break.

Wrong. Taiwan was only BRIEFLY under Chinese ruling during the Ming and Ching Dynasty by FORCE. They just sent troops to Taiwan and claimed its their own.

During ALL other times in history, China has NEVER had sovereignty over Taiwan.

 

[allanh]

Originally posted by loggerheads
If as I've just read, it has an entirely seperate economy, seperate democratically elected government, seperate constitution and is seperated by water, then for me it's a country. The plastic things are also most important. As for the history, it seems to me to be rather irrelevant, it wasn't so many years ago that 1/4 of the word was part of the British Empire, but India is now a country, so is Australia etc. I don't see that it's a big deal whether or not any political leaders who don't wish to antagonise China recognise it or not, if it looks like a dog and it barks and fetches sticks but someone bigger than me tells me it's a cat, I still know it;s a dog, and it still acts like a dog.
That was an awful, convoluted analogy. but still.

thanks for seeing the logic.

Many imperialistic-minded people like to include every land in this world under their regime. They can't be reasoned with common sense

 

[Archbob]

Well there is a big difference between the British Empire former colonies and Taiwan. For one Taiwanese and Chinese are pretty much the same.

And point Number two. After these countries became independant, Britian, officially recognized them as independant, China has never recognized the independance of Taiwan. In diplomatic terms, they are a separate entity but not consider a separate country. The KMT pretty much decided to succeed from the Union and China basically says its illegal to do that much like the south try to succeed from the North.

Now none of this really matters because China will not attack Taiwan, because it simply isn't worth the effort right now.

The earlier point about Hong Kong is irrelevant, because Britian promised to return Hong Kong to China after 99 years so no, Hong Kong and likewise Macao are not independant countries.

 

[superstar]

Taiwan = Republic of Taiwan

Taiwan is currently in the process of transforming itself into the Republic of Taiwan.

http://W0N.net/

If any Chinese is stupid enough to trespass onto the sovereign territory of Taiwan, we will gladly throw you back into the sea like sewage.

http://etaiwannews.com/Taiwan/2003/03/12/1047431172.htm

Once we have acquired nuclear weapons or other WMD, we will bomb China back to the stone ages if necessary or as required by our doctrine of pre-emptive defense to safeguard the Taiwanese homeland, and also to liberate our oppressed brothers in Tibet and Xinjiang.

Free Tibet!!! http://www.freetibet.org/

 

[allanh]

Originally posted by conkermaniac
would like to quote Mahatir Mohammed (I think it was him who said this, at least), "No single nation should be allowed to police the world." And a World War will only start when the entire world is provoked.

Mahatir is a dictator himself. In fact, most of the countries in this world that don't like US are either dictators, rogue states or Muslim states. I guess it says all: Good VS Evil

 

[allanh]

Originally posted by Toefur
China's got plenty of people, and enough money. What's the point in insisting Taiwan be part of China?

the answer if simple: greediness

 

[allanh]

Originally posted by stabme
as long as those little plastic things say "made in taiwan", yeah.. i consider it a country..

hehe, we don't just make plastic toys.

In fact Acer, ASUS and GIGABYTE are all Taiwanese companies

so, the computer you are using or the motherboards you are using are most likely to be Taiwanese products

 

[Archbob]

superstar, you do realize that without the support of the United States and protection, China would have taken Taiwan long ago. China also has WMD.


By the ways, I doubt the situation in Taiwan will actaully change. They really can't declare themselves soverign because the major countries won't recognize them and the USA realizes it isn't worth damaging trade relations with China to back Taiwan in this issue. Also China won't attack Taiwan because it realizes, it doesn't want to damage trade and diplomatic relations with the United States.

Whether or not China attacks Taiwan does not depend on Taiwan at all, but the United States. Without US support the Taiwanese army couldn't win agains the Chinese army.

 

[foo2thabar]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Is Taiwan a country?

Originally posted by Webdude
Oh geez Conk...you're really digging yourself in. Hawaii accepted itself into the Union on the offer, it was never conquered.

In the U.S., each state is setup to be it's own country. On a vote, and state can seperate from the U.S. as well. Texas itself can do that, but it also has the option of dividing into 5 smaller states. Texas falls under a different set of laws, hence it's fairly independent of the Feds. However, that's besides the point, the states of the Union are not held hostage as they all have the option of voting themselves out of the Union. Does Taiwan have that option?

Wasn't the right to secede from the Union taken away from the states that formed the former Confederate States of America after all of them were re-accepted into the Union after the civil war?

 

[superstar]

Originally posted by Archbob
Whether or not China attacks Taiwan does not depend on Taiwan at all, but the United States. Without US support the Taiwanese army couldn't win agains the Chinese army.

The world has no respect for Taiwanese because Taiwan does not have nuclear weapons. That will change.

 

[Webdude]

I was mistaken. Texas is still legally it's own country.

After the Civil War, all of the Southern States were ordered to recind their secessions, except Texas. Texans would have been required to vote on the matter of re-entry into the Union. They have never been allowed to vote for re-entry and Texas lawfully remains a SEPARATE, FREE AND INDEPENDENT nation.

The United States Congress had voted to re-annex Texas as part of the Louisiana Purchase, in 1866. Texas lands, over which Texas had jurisdiction, were taken by the UNITED STATES and made into other states, in violation of their own constitution! These frauds upon the Texan People were uncovered in 1994, and the Texan People reasserted their claim of being defrauded and re-established their lawful status as a Free and Independent nation.

BOTTOM LINE
Texas was never lawfully admitted as one of the several nation-states of the federation or union that make up the united States of America and the Texan People lawfully removed themselves and their Texas from the UNITED STATES of the DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA in 1861.

 

[Archbob]

Originally posted by superstar
The world has no respect for Taiwanese because Taiwan does not have nuclear weapons. That will change.

Its not about Nuclear weapons, the Taiwanese military is weak without USA support, Nukes or Not.