Why Atheism is logical to me

[conkermaniac]

Society as a whole IS very critical towards gays. Hundreds of gay men were arrested in Egypt without reason and tortured (with electrical shocks) without reason. In school, the most common thing to joke about is "gay people". Many scientists are looking for ways to "cure" homosexuality besides castration. If the QAF show is popular, it is merely because of a good storyline or just curiousity.

 

[Archbob]

It gets high popularity because the gay population watches it most likely.

Actually many people who aren't stout believers just have a religion cause its something for them to fall back on.

 

[keith]

i'd have to say i agree with webdude's original response 100%.

as for giancarlo, your grossly repetitive argument of fossil records are there, and i agree with that.

but to say that because of your little "fossil records" theory that christianity is a crock is just plain naive. the bible was written to be interpretted. here's one of many examples i could give you:

the bible says the earth and its beings were created in 6 days, and on the seventh He rested. well, any plain idiot would realize that it doesn't literally suggest 7 days. the seven days could almost be called a metaphor for the 60 million some years that took place between the 'big bang' and the first humans. that's what i believe, and i tell you makes a hell of a lot more sense than your uneducated little "fossil records exist so the bible is false" theory. that's a downright obsurd statement.

and another ignorant statement is your claim that the bible is critical toward gays. have you even read the bible? don't make any claims you can't support. go and read it before making anymore blatantly ignorant comments.

and why do i get the feeling you're simply trying to start a controversy? claiming god is false... pretending to be gay... it's wearing quite thin.

 

[Canuckkev]

Hm...okay, my little addition. I think I agree with most of what Dusty says...

Anyways, I guess most scientific studies aree to the Big Bang theory, but isn't time infinite? It seems logical that it is...And also, will the universe keep expanding forever...? I don't see how there can a a start, but no finish. It seems to me like all a sudden a supreme being rolled the dice, and our "universe" began. Or not...and somehow some forces combined all the matter and enery (same thing, right?) of a previous Bang into this nothingness, which exploded again, and again...

Quite Frankly, it is much easier to adhere to a preset form of beliefs written in some book...

Does anyone believe that science will explain universe, life, time, existence, etc? I don't see how we can.

I have always just went with the "scientific" explanation of human evolution, but I wonder how the single celled organisms from which life on earth evolved got here. Aliens? Or did somehow atoms align themselves into a specific pattern in which the characteristics of life were possible.

And death...it is nice to think that there is an afterlife, a "heaven", but I can't honestly think that after I die, I will go live in the clouds...which makes me lean more towards Dusty. That life is what it is...once you stop being "alive" according to the definition, that is it. That conciousness is just electrical signals, and thinking is the same thing. That humans are nothing special, that the earth is not the center of the universe, that extra-terrestrial life must exist if we actually exist.

The more I think of all these things, the happier I am to be alive. That even if I am an insignifigant cluster of atoms that happens to react to stimuli, reproduce, etc..., I have lived, and made an impact on history, and nothing can change that.

On morals...
Well, I cannot understand anyone who believes in organized religion. While moral teachings are important, all the wars and deaths religion has caused seems like such a waste. Thou Shall Not Kill. Hey, they don't believe in God, lets kill them! Sigh.

I'm going to go enjoy a piece of cake.

 

[keith]

Originally posted by Canuckkev
On morals...
Well, I cannot understand anyone who believes in organized religion. While moral teachings are important, all the wars and deaths religion has caused seems like such a waste. Thou Shall Not Kill. Hey, they don't believe in God, lets kill them! Sigh.

yet another hugely uneducated statement. this is getting damn repetetive.

 

[Archbob]

Actually I think in the bible, God stated it was a sin for a man to make love with a man, not good for our friend Giancarlo.

 

[Webdude]

Big Bang theory

The scientific arena believe the big bang has most likely already happened several times. There is nothing in the Bible that disagrees with this. "In the beginning" refers to our beginning, this world's beginning.

The way it works is that it explodes and then expands for billions (trillions?) of years. Then the explosion starts slowing down, and it reverses due to the gravity of everything pulling it back together. Once it gets back to level zero...I dont think I'd want to be with a billion light years of it..LOL

Everyone is forgetting something...dimensions. Death may simply be a crossover to another dimension. I think in the end, the question is is our conciousness energy? If so, where does that energy go when we die? Since it is an energy that science cannot explain, then no-one has the answer...only theories. The only proof that has ever been shown of an energy leaving the body at death and signs of some sort of after life is by weight. There was this scientist who put some people who were dying on some sort of super sensitive weight scale. At the instant of death, it was noted in every case that the body lost weight by a few microounces or whatever they called it. I remember seeing it on something like the Discovery channel or whatever..

 

[Archbob]

If your an aethist like Giancarlo, you most likely believe that death is simply the end of life.

 

[Canuckkev]

Originally posted by keith
yet another hugely uneducated statement. this is getting damn repetetive.

Okay, I didn't really say much there, my hands were getting tired. The moral teachings of religion are good. There is no denying it. A list such as the 10 commandments is ideal for giving people a list of laws to live by.

And what I said was BS, you are right keith. But in places such as Ireland, where Catholics and Protestants can not stand each other, does not make a lot of sense to me. I don't see why anyone should care what anothers beliefs are. As long as society has reasonable morals and laws, it should not matter what religion and what beliefs someone has.

 

[Webdude]

I didnt say I was athiest....as a matter of fact, I have said quite the opposite. I am not however, a religious fanatic...there's a big difference between believing, and being a fanatic. Just like there is a difference between a gay man and a fairie. Some will know what I mean by that, others may not..

 

[Canuckkev]

Re: Big Bang theory

Originally posted by Webdude


Everyone is forgetting something...dimensions. Death may simply be a crossover to another dimension. I think in the end, the question is is our conciousness energy? If so, where does that energy go when we die? Since it is an energy that science cannot explain, then no-one has the answer...only theories. The only proof that has ever been shown of an energy leaving the body at death and signs of some sort of after life is by weight. There was this scientist who put some people who were dying on some sort of super sensitive weight scale. At the instant of death, it was noted in every case that the body lost weight by a few microounces or whatever they called it. I remember seeing it on something like the Discovery channel or whatever..

I think I heard about that too. Very interesting. If one believes in an infinite universe, there must also be infinite dimensions, with infinite space in them too. Or is there only 1 dimension? So many intriguing questions about existence out there...and no one knows any of the truth.

 

[syd]

If people don't believe in religion or of an afterlife then who cares.

If you are right, and life will end at death and I'll be eaten by worms and nothing else, then obviously I won't be there to be upset about worring about it all my life

And if I'M right, well then I guess I'll be in heaven. So either way, I win

 

[bigperm]

Originally posted by Archbob
If your an aethist like Giancarlo, you most likely believe that death is simply the end of life.

Main Entry: death
Pronunciation: 'deth
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English deeth, from Old English dEath; akin to Old Norse dauthi death, deyja to die -- more at DIE
Date: before 12th century
1 : a permanent cessation of all vital functions : the end of life --

 

[Webdude]

Originally posted by syd
If people don't believe in religion or of an afterlife then who cares. If you are right, and life will end at death and I'll be eaten by worms and nothing else, then obviously I won't be there to be upset about worring about it all my life. And if I'M right, well then I guess I'll be in heaven. So either way, I win

That's the way I look at it too. Better safe than sorry. Being safe, I have nothing to worry about. If God believers are right, then the athiests WILL have something to worry about after they die. I got a feeling though, that once you die it is too late to change your beliefs.. But like I said before...I cannot believe that whatever powers that be would send a decent person to hell just because they didnt believe. For all we know, hell could be reincarnation and heaven could be a better life in another dimension.....hopefully somewhere where you dont have to pay taxes and listen to Giancarlo ramble

 

[Hoth]

When you consider that in objective time Einstein's relativity shows that all moments coexist at once (there is no objective sense of time), the idea of an afterlife or before-life just doesn't even make much sense. But, that's complicated.

On evolution: suffice it to say that the versions of it some people see seem false and the versions of it other people see seem true. At its heart, all evolution proposes is that things change over time... any theory of exactly what manner these things change in is not central to the idea of evolution itself. Further, anyone who tries to describe evolution in terms of goals is doing it a disservice, since it's only a description of a series of events, no goals involved even though goals make it easier for us to understand the series of events. Evolution itself simply says that if you put something living on a planet and wait billions of years, you end up with very different sorts of things. Even divine intervention would fit into evolution, it would simply be another observation of evolution that sometimes there are sudden appearances out of nowhere.

Evolution is not whatsoever contrary to any god, despite the hatred some religious people have for it. Science can never explain the rules that the changes in the world follow... those rules are the basis of science through which it explains everything else, so it has nothing left to turn to for explaining the laws. Religions could easily say that god created the laws of physics as his method of creation, considering he's supposed to be all-knowing and so must therefore know what species will develop on Earth at a particular time based on initial conditions he sets. But for Christians and the other sorts who cling to the dates in their little old books, there's no sense in the discussion. So be it.

With religious people who don't try to force their beliefs on others, I have no argument. Truth isn't the kind of rigid objective concept that 99% of people make it out to be. Truth, when analyzed philosophically, boils down to consistency. People can construct very different systems of belief, and so long as they're consistent within their system they may explain the world just as well as any other group. The Quine-Duhem thesis pretty clearly explains all that, and points out that truths of science are just as relative as those of other religions.

 

[Hoth]

Originally posted by Webdude
Everyone is forgetting something...dimensions. Death may simply be a crossover to another dimension. I think in the end, the question is is our conciousness energy? If so, where does that energy go when we die? Since it is an energy that science cannot explain, then no-one has the answer...only theories. The only proof that has ever been shown of an energy leaving the body at death and signs of some sort of after life is by weight. There was this scientist who put some people who were dying on some sort of super sensitive weight scale. At the instant of death, it was noted in every case that the body lost weight by a few microounces or whatever they called it. I remember seeing it on something like the Discovery channel or whatever..

First: Any loss of physical energy, such as what you're saying was found, is something science would no doubt claim to explain. You're playing right into their hand if you're calling the consciousness an object with mass. Of course, there are no known violations of the law of conservation of mass and energy. (Obviously, mass lost at death goes into the nearby area.) Consciousness must remain nonphysical (energy is all physical, since mass and energy are the same sort of thing) in order to be more than mechanical. Talking of consciousness being in the physical world in the form of energy doesn't make sense (unless you're an eliminative materialist).

Second: If consciousness were in another dimension, there'd be absolutely no good reason why the death of the physical body should bother it. If it's not in our 3 dimensions to begin with, it doesn't have any need to change dimensions since it's already where it needs to be. So, there's no crossover involved anywhere.

Originally posted by Canuckkev
Or is there only 1 dimension?

Um, which one do you like? Width, length, height or time?

I can see good arguments for 3 dimensions or 4 dimensions, and string theory requires sometimes 20 or more dimensions, and even 0 dimensions makes sense in a way... but a 1-D universe doesn't make sense to me.

 

[Giancarlo]

Originally posted by keith

and why do i get the feeling you're simply trying to start a controversy? claiming god is false... pretending to be gay... it's wearing quite thin.

And is there any evidence to prove these false accusations of starting a controversy?

No I am not, I believe that god does not exist because it is against common logic, and I am gay. Your idiocy is wearing thin.

 

[Giancarlo]

Here is my fuller response:

Originally posted by keith
as for giancarlo, your grossly repetitive argument of fossil records are there, and i agree with that.

The only grossly repetitive argument I provide is backed up.

the bible says the earth and its beings were created in 6 days, and on the seventh He rested. well, any plain idiot would realize that it doesn't literally suggest 7 days. the seven days could almost be called a metaphor for the 60 million some years that took place between the 'big bang' and the first humans. that's what i believe, and i tell you makes a hell of a lot more sense than your uneducated little "fossil records exist so the bible is false" theory. that's a downright obsurd statement.

You are idiot. A plain idiot with no way to back up your comments. At least I have the fossils themselves, and a working logical set of beliefs called evolution. Creationism is probably the biggest crock there is out there, and one of the biggest lies ever to exist. Your entire argument is absurd and arbitrary.

and another ignorant statement is your claim that the bible is critical toward gays. have you even read the bible? don't make any claims you can't support. go and read it before making anymore blatantly ignorant comments.

I had to go to a Christian school interpreting the bible for one year so I know that it did. Don't make any assumptions about other people you can't even back up! Your beliefs are filled with holes and falsehoods. You go think before you make any ignorant comments.

and why do i get the feeling you're simply trying to start a controversy? claiming god is false... pretending to be gay... it's wearing quite thin.

Again I spit in your face for trying to mock my beliefs and who I am. Claiming god is false? Wrong, in my perspective god IS false. No question about it.

 

[Giancarlo]

Originally posted by conkermaniac
Society as a whole IS very critical towards gays. Hundreds of gay men were arrested in Egypt without reason and tortured (with electrical shocks) without reason. In school, the most common thing to joke about is "gay people". Many scientists are looking for ways to "cure" homosexuality besides castration. If the QAF show is popular, it is merely because of a good storyline or just curiousity.

Argentina also has been accused of viciously mistreating the gay population. Since the Police are trained by the Israelis, they use torture. There aren't many scientists out there attempting to "cure" gay people, but a few... because the American Medical Assiociation stopped calling homosexuality a disease in the 70s.

 

[Giancarlo]

Originally posted by Archbob
If your an aethist like Giancarlo, you most likely believe that death is simply the end of life.

And that is why I incorporate existentialism into my beliefs... cherish each day as if it were your last.