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Hey, let's get married!

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Me too, and not just for herbal remedies. ;)

actually speaking of dealer, when I was crossing the mall parking lot the other day, a couple of kids came up to me and asked me if i could spare them a joint. That's not really the image I want to convey.

I had a good look at myself when I got home and decided that I'm going to switch to carhartts and a mack jacket. Kids'll be asking me where the lumber is.
 
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Well, I always sort of thought that the "nature/nuture" would have been the base of the whole debate, but maybe not.

Even if it IS wholly psychological, I don't really have a problem with people choosing to be with someone of the same sex. I think that most Canadians feel this way. There is a large minority who don't, but it seems the majority wins in this case.

But as for "marriage", my honest feelings are that I don't feel the need to officially recognize this "alternative lifestyle". I won't say I'm opposed, but I just don't feel that an overwhelming majority of our society wishes to equate homosexual relationships with heterosexual, so there is no need to go changing things.

Because, after all, it isn't "normal". Whether you choose to be gay, or are born that way, it just is not "normal", and therefore I don't see the need to accept it as normal.
 
Canuckkev said:
Well, I always sort of thought that the "nature/nuture" would have been the base of the whole debate, but maybe not.

Even if it IS wholly psychological, I don't really have a problem with people choosing to be with someone of the same sex. I think that most Canadians feel this way. There is a large minority who don't, but it seems the majority wins in this case.

But as for "marriage", my honest feelings are that I don't feel the need to officially recognize this "alternative lifestyle". I won't say I'm opposed, but I just don't feel that an overwhelming majority of our society wishes to equate homosexual relationships with heterosexual, so there is no need to go changing things.

Because, after all, it isn't "normal". Whether you choose to be gay, or are born that way, it just is not "normal", and therefore I don't see the need to accept it as normal.

That is the BEST reasoning to why someone would not allow same sex marriage. Notice he didn't use the words "God", "Bible", or "Religion".

While I support same-sex marriage (I believe everyone is equal and entitled to their own sexual preferences), I do not disagree with Kev here as he clearly stated why HE (Not God, not the Bible, Not a Religious Belief) doesn't support it.

Well done! Fantastic response. Clear, to the point, and most importantly, it was YOUR OPINION, not one of a book!
 
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Gayowulf said:
Me too, and not just for herbal remedies. ;)

actually speaking of dealer, when I was crossing the mall parking lot the other day, a couple of kids came up to me and asked me if i could spare them a joint. That's not really the image I want to convey.

I had a good look at myself when I got home and decided that I'm going to switch to carhartts and a mack jacket. Kids'll be asking me where the lumber is.

Will you ship to US 95821?
 
Ask Wojtek, NetMaster... I only partake of such vices from time to time. The postman'd probably take it anyways. But if you want, I could send you a postcard from Canada. just PM me your address.

I like Kev's response too, and definately respect Roberts reaction to it. We need more of that.

There's a lot of pressure for people to accept homosexuality as normal, regardless of whether it is or isn't. In the long run it doesn't really effect you unless some homo's got the hots for you.

i treat it like a style. Some people dress funny and I raise my eyebrow, and other people fit in. dress how you want... it doesn't effect me.

so why can't we all just get along. In this case apathy is the solution.

I've noticed that there is definately a "flamboyant minority" that tends to perpetuate the bentwrist lisping flamer queen stereotype. Believe it or not there are a lot of gays out there that act completely normal.
 
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Meksilon said:
Evidence directly disproving this:

* - Homosexuals make up (about) 2% of the population, whereas left-handed people - a true genetic minority make up 10%. Also, although left-handed people can be taught to use their right hand instead, it will still be more natural to them to use their left hand. You talk to my grandmother, she writes with her right hand because she was forced to do so, but she's really left-handed.
What are you trying to show by juxtaposing 2% and 10%? Different traits appear in different frequencies in a population.

And how do you know that homosexuals make up "about 2%" of the population? You are making a wild estimate, as is everybody else who claims to be the authority. I've heard estimates go as high as 10%. And just like left-handedness, people can suppress homosexual feelings. Many gay people are involved in heterosexual relationships, simply because they fear ostracism. How do you account for that? Until society becomes tolerant of homosexuality as it has become of southpaws, you will never know just how common homosexuality is.

A fundamentally flawed study which produced no evidence that genetics are at all involved.
Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

Your argument is a strawman. I never asserted that scientists have proven that genetics are involved. I said that they have not proven that genetics are not involved, while you claim that they have proven so. Now I want to see evidence that the human genome project proved that genetics is not a factor in homosexuality. You made the assertion, now I want the evidence.

Really all this indicates, though, is that there are environmental factors at work here. In identical twins it should have been 100% if it was really genetic.
I'm not really well-versed in biology, but not all identical twins are exactly alike in seemingly genetic aspects like ear shape. How do you account for these discrepancies?
 
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I'm a Christian myself but I do think the state should legalize same-sex marriages because there's the clause of separation of church and state. The state is not there to represent the church. We have freedom of religion for a reason in this country. Just because you think something doesn't mean you can enforce it on others. Marriage by a clerk basically means you get a certificate that states you are married and you get legal benefits of being married. I do not see whats wrong with giving same sex couples the legal benefits.

However, a church should not recognize same-sex marriage and should be allow gay or lesbian couples to be wedded on church grounds because homosexuals are disdainful in the eyes of God.

The one trouble with the almight God that I even have is the fact that he is omniscent which contradicts free will. If God already knows whats going to happen in everyone's life, then in fact we don't really have free will. If he does not know what is going to happen in our lives, then he is not completely omniscent.
 
Uh...omniscience doesn't mean he knows what WILL happen, he just sees everything that happens. IE: He sees the entire world happening instead of what's just in front of his eyes like a human.

That has nothing to do with free will, the free will comes from God being completely good or w/e

I agree with you though, I'm arguing for the state to legalize it, what the church allows is completely up to it's own beliefs.

It's like in that simpsons episode, the church does not allow it, so homer becomes ordained and does it himself...making 200$ a couple in the process ;P

Regards,
 
conkermaniac said:
I'm not really well-versed in biology, but not all identical twins are exactly alike in seemingly genetic aspects like ear shape. How do you account for these discrepancies?
Identical twins start of developing identical features. They have essentially the same finger-prints. But not exactly, because those physical developments can be affected by the position in the womb.
conkermaniac said:
And how do you know that homosexuals make up "about 2%" of the population? You are making a wild estimate, as is everybody else who claims to be the authority. I've heard estimates go as high as 10%.
No, I'm simply going with today's best estimates.

Also, the full genome sequence is available on the internet.
 
No it's not..the full genome sequence has yet to be mapped...if it has been we would know how to cure all deseases. Still have cancer, aids, etc. We've merely begun to explore the human genome.

Regards,
 
I've got a poster of the human genome on my wall (and the mouse genome).

The human one was completed in 2003 after 13 years of research.
 
Just because the human genome project was complete, doesn't mean we know the genetics of human entirely. Far from that.
 
Death Reaper said:
No it's not..the full genome sequence has yet to be mapped...
No it doesn't, as gaywulf said it was completed in 2003. Some genes have been theorised to affect behaviour, but those that do are so mild that it's almost undetectable. That is to say, that they really only make the slightest nudge in behaviour. BTW, I was wrong - handedness is not purely genetic, but it is "hard-wired".
 
Gayowulf said:
I've got a poster of the human genome on my wall (and the mouse genome).

The human one was completed in 2003 after 13 years of research.
That's just to impress girls, right?
 
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