When are the Western countries going to pay?

[conkermaniac]

Toefur, well said! I totally agree, but the problem is, how do we get more people to care about such issues? Rich people seem to care little about the poor and continue to blame them on not being successful or just not trying hard enough. This is totally untrue. We need to make the rich people realize that even in a supposedly "equal opportunity" society, poor people are locked into a caste system. Because they were born poor, they are given access to less facilities than rich people. The worst part of this is that the education that poor people receive is also considerably worse, ensuring that they will not likely get a well-paying job. Of course, you do hear of the poor people that work very hard and become rich, but the fact is, for the most part, rich people will stay rich, and poor people will stay poor.

 

[syd]

You guys are ALL TALK and no action. Last time I checked, you all weren't doing a damn thing to help the poor.

 

[Toefur]

Originally posted by syd
You guys are ALL TALK and no action. Last time I checked, you all weren't doing a damn thing to help the poor.

Wow Syd, really intelligent.

I hate to use such a mocking tone; but the thing is that what you said is based on what, exactly?

You have no idea the things I do and have done.

 

[syd]

So I'm stupid now? Oh really, you try and tell me that everyone who sits around and yells "Save the world! Save the poor Africans" actually gets off their butts and does it? Please. How about you sell your computer and give the money to a starving homeless woman if you really want to stand up for the unfortunate? I don't see you writing stories for Amnesty International. DO YOU write articles for them, post them on the web and try to save people? I doubt it.

Like I said, you guys are all talk. If you really want to make a difference, quit surfing the net and go march on main street. Maybe that will make a difference.

 

[Toefur]

Originally posted by syd
So I'm stupid now? Oh really, you try and tell me that everyone who sits around and yells "Save the world! Save the poor Africans" actually gets off their butts and does it? Please. How about you sell your computer and give the money to a starving homeless woman if you really want to stand up for the unfortunate?

Okay, some things you need to know, syd.

1. I can't speak for other people here, but I am active with my beliefs. I don't just "sit on my butt" and complain.

2. I'd love to give my computer up, I hate the things.

3. I can't.

4. Why not?

5. Because the money I use to help aid the needy is made from the work I do online. Sure, I could sell my computer to try and proove something to you; or I could keep it and make more money which will allow me to help others.

6. The reason you don't see me writing stories for amnesty international is because a) you honestly have no idea whether I do or dont, and b) there is a far lot more that can be done for the needy than "writing stories for amnesty international"

7. You only make yourself look stupid when you post things that just aren't true.

8. Why? Because I -do- march the streets and such, and; as stated above: I use the 'net to make the money that I use to help the needy.

 

[jw]

Originally posted by syd
If you really want to make a difference, quit surfing the net and go march on main street. Maybe that will make a difference.

What does marching on main street accomplish? If you want to rid the world of a problem, don't rely on someone else to do it for you, do it yourself. You aren't making a difference by protesting, just taking 5 minutes from the daily news. What I see from society is relying too much on others and not taking issues into their own hands and solving them themselves. Don't depend on the government or some "non-profit" organization (I believe the most cost-effective non-profit only uses 75% of their revenue to benifit their cause). Stop pointing fingers and look at yourself; being introspective is the first step toward producing true results.

 

[syd]

You guys aren't getting my point.

The vast, vast, VAST majority of people who complain about people dying in Africa and such appear to just sit and complain about it without doing anything BUT complaining. Ok Tofeur, so you DO stuff... and you are what - maybe 0.5% of people who actually DO? The bottom line is that people, especially in North America like to show their sympathy but in reality don't do a damn thing about society in the first place. And that's why there's little to no chance anything will change.

But it is really that hard to comprehend? And marching on main street? It seems to draw attention at several conferences in Vancouver. After all, it accomplishes a lot more than just sitting on FWS.net like we all do.

 

[jmiller]

Originally posted by syd
You guys aren't getting my point.

The vast, vast, VAST majority of people who complain about people dying in Africa and such appear to just sit and complain about it without doing anything BUT complaining. Ok Tofeur, so you DO stuff... and you are what - maybe 0.5% of people who actually DO? The bottom line is that people, especially in North America like to show their sympathy but in reality don't do a damn thing about society in the first place. And that's why there's little to no chance anything will change.

But it is really that hard to comprehend? And marching on main street? It seems to draw attention at several conferences in Vancouver. After all, it accomplishes a lot more than just sitting on FWS.net like we all do.

I know exactly what you're saying. Sitting on here, doing nothing but complain will not solve the problem. People need to get out in their communities and start to help out. Sure I complain on here, but at the same time I do my part in society.
Your messages will only get across if you get off your asses and do something.

 

[conkermaniac]

Well, I can give beggars money when I do have it, donate money to the few charities that are here, and visit an orphanage, but I can't do much more than that. The fact is, there aren't many charity organizations in this city that help the even more desperately poor out west in this starving. And what about personally going there to see them myself? That would be at least a few weeks' journey (and another few weeks' back), and my parents wouldn't allow me to do that (though I probably would do it myself).

 

[Todd]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: When are the Western countries going to pay?

Hate to dig up a thread a couple of days old but I just realized I never replied to you conkermaniac.

Originally posted by conkermaniac
A court ruled that the US was required to pay a total of $250 million dollars, and so far, they've paid a few million of that amount. If after $250 million dollars, they still can't fix the problem, then it's their problem to figure it out on their own.

I don't know the specifics on this, but I am curious about this. Which court handed down that order? Have any more information about it?

Originally posted by conkermaniac
In fact, Hussein was elected with 99% of the votes, I believe. Though there probably was some corruption involved with this election, as with all elections, I doubt it could have factored into such an overwhelming majority. If the US messes with these countries, then they are going against democracy.

Henry Kissinger once said that if the US wasn't pleased with the results of an election, they would interfere.

I don't think it's the results that are the problem but rather the behavior once they have the power. If the USA and Israel wanted to take out Arafat he would already be dead. I think both countries realize the havoc / problems that would come from such behavior. Re Afghanistan: We've had a hands off policy in terms of interfering with other countries but that should change if the government treats it's citizens as bad as the Taliban did. (My 2 cents)

Originally posted by conkermaniac
Clearly, the interests are not for humanitarian aid. The US does not have this much money to waste, and most of its actions are for keeping its status as the world power and for benefitting its own economy.

Find me proof that the net flow between third-world countries and the US flows away from the US, rather than towards. But I have seen no proof of that thus far, while I have seen a lot of proof of the countries giving back more than what the US gives them, including numerous offline resources.

I took out your section on US / China manufacturing as I agree that prices would go up on these items. I won't get in to a debate there but suffice it to say I hate seeing USA based companies take things outside the USA to save money.

http://www.usaid.gov/ - They provide some aid numbers, such as $420 million of aid provided to Afghanistan alone. Without this aid I'm sure death tolls would sky rocket even more. It also says: "The United States provided 80 percent of all food aid to U.N. World Food Program (WFP) for Afghanistan last fiscal year, and already more than 50 percent this year."

80% for one country... No matter where you look, when there is food being donated you'll see those USA letters on the bags. I'll say it again, the USA does far more good then bad.

Look at the financial donations to charities after 9/11 for example. Most Americans are heavily in debt with mortgages, car loans, credit cards, etc. and yet they stepped up to help. It wasn't just from the USA government but also directly from the American people who voluntarily decided to donate instead of pay off their debt.

I really don't think you are giving enough credit for the good actions that have been done. Search for the UN World Food Program and you'll see the largest donations have come from the USA.

Off Topic: I mentioned it in another thread but many bums have mental conditions or abuse drugs and/or alcohol so I'd advise donating to a charity, which helps them instead of paying them directly. Otherwise you may be unintentionally supporting their bad habits and possibly even their drug dealers. Make a web site about the issues that matter to you, tell people how they can help, where they can donate, etc.

Give people the information needed to make the right choice and a majority of them will make the right choice.