• Howdy! Welcome to our community of more than 130.000 members devoted to web hosting. This is a great place to get special offers from web hosts and post your own requests or ads. To start posting sign up here. Cheers! /Peo, FreeWebSpace.net

What the?

Status
Not open for further replies.

Zombie

You're not safe.
NLC
NLC
Who deleted my 'Whats with the kids?' thread in Free Hosting Discussions.

It bashed no members, no hosts, and no specific persons.
It was a minirant about how the free hosting industry is full of retarded kids.

Where'd it go and why?
Jan I assume?
 

theraptor

Active Member
It probably had something to do with all the posts in the other thread being deleted as well. It wasn't *that* hard to figure out who you were talking about...(or it looked like you were talking about anyways...)
 

Zombie

You're not safe.
NLC
NLC
Well, he set off the rant but it wasn't towards him at all. It was a general statement, I see how it could be seen as such though it wasn't...
 

Jan

Forum Cleaner
NLC
It was a minirant about how the free hosting industry is full of retarded kids.
If you keep the insults out of it, you are free to start a new one. But people hae been starting threads like that for the last 10 years. Nothing will change.
 

Zombie

You're not safe.
NLC
NLC
Keep the insults out?
They are needed, crush the childrens self esteem they'll quit :evilb:
 

deeplist

Entrepreneur
NLC
Keep the insults out?
They are needed, crush the childrens self esteem they'll quit :evilb:
Very true. They need to be called out on their BS. I'm getting about tired of these stupid kids running around on here pretending to be the greatest thing since sliced bread.

There are clearly issues with them or their services and we can't call them out because we're "host bashing" but then a month later they're gone anyway because they couldn't get mommy and daddy to cover their VPS bill.
 

theraptor

Active Member
Because of strict "no host-bashing" rules and not so strict regulations on the quality of webhost that can post here, this site is less helpful for consumers finding good, high-quality hosting for a reasonable price, and more helpful for every person to advertise their host, regardless of whether they are going to screw over their customers or not.

tl;dr: Like the BBB, this site is pro-business and not pro-consumer.
 

deeplist

Entrepreneur
NLC
Like the BBB, this site is pro-business and not pro-consumer.
There's no "business" about it. I'd say less that 5% of the "companies" that advertise here are even real. They're just made up by dumb asses living in their parent's basements. Hardly anyone has actually gone through the process of legally starting their "company" and I feel that's part of the problem here. If all "hosts" were required to provide proof of their business entity's existence BEFORE being able to post offers, almost all of these dumb --- kids posting stupid offers would be gone.
 

theraptor

Active Member
deeplist, that may be true, but when I say business there I mean those whole sell or give away hosting. IE the Hosts. This site should not be pro-host, it should be pro hostee. Sadly, this just isn't the case.
 
Last edited:

Seraphim

Active Member
There's no "business" about it. I'd say less that 5% of the "companies" that advertise here are even real. They're just made up by dumb asses living in their parent's basements. Hardly anyone has actually gone through the process of legally starting their "company" and I feel that's part of the problem here. If all "hosts" were required to provide proof of their business entity's existence BEFORE being able to post offers, almost all of these dumb --- kids posting stupid offers would be gone.
But a lot of startups that haven't gone that far yet would also be unable to post here, and the community would rapidly degrade towards elitist people with money only. Filing that kind of thing is expensive, and a new startup often is already strapped for cash just getting their feet wet. They need to be able to get used to running their business to make sure they can handle it before going official.

It would not benefit anyone to restrict it to registered businesses only, all that would do is greatly reduce the choices the customers would have when they come here. As it is there have been progressively fewer of them coming here in just the time I've been around.

Although it is interesting to note that there has been a lot fewer new hosts coming here to advertise recently. I wonder why that is.
 
Last edited:

wswd

Premium
Premium Member
But a lot of startups that haven't gone that far yet would also be unable to post here, and the community would rapidly degrade towards elitist people with money only. Filing that kind of thing is expensive, and a new startup often is already strapped for cash just getting their feet wet. They need to be able to get used to running their business to make sure they can handle it before going official.
Imagine if I went and opened a McDonald's on the local street corner to "get my feet wet" and "see if I can handle it" before going official, without having the appropriate licenses, permits, etc. Do you think the state and city would go for that?

People seem to think that rules relating to business do not apply on the Internet. And unfortunately, there is no regulation. The states and countries don't hunt these kids down for operating illegal businesses. Being strapped for cash absolutely does not excuse you from not going about the offical and appropriate means of creating a business. If you're strapped for cash, you probably shouldn't be opening a "business" in the first place.

Completely agree that registered businesses should be the only ones allowed to advertise. It would not be a difficult thing for the mods here to verify, and would cut down on the illegal businesses. Secondly, there should be an age verification. Nobody under 18 should be allowed to advertise, since technically speaking (at least here in the US), minors can't engage in contracts. They really shouldn't be conducting business in the first place.

Although it is interesting to note that there has been a lot fewer new hosts coming here to advertise recently. I wonder why that is.
Probably because they come here making ridiculous offers and get blasted by the legitimate folk.
 

deanhills

Active Member
deeplist, that may be true, but when I say business there I mean those whole sell or give away hosting. IE the Hosts. This site should not be pro-host, it should be pro hostee. Sadly, this just isn't the case.
Right! But then there has to be some incentive to get the hostees to post when they are browsing in the Free Webhosting Directory. When I first visited the Free Webhosting Directory to find a Free Webhost, I had been completely unaware of a treasure trove of info in the discussion forum. My eyes had been exclusively focused on finding and filtering information in the Free Webhosting Directory. If I had known how valuable the Forum was, I'd have posted here much sooner. The only reason I finally started posting here was in order to get a review up in the Free Webhosting Directory, and then I got hooked.

The Free Webhost Directory is a valuable resource and should be brought up to date (I still have not been able to get my review up there) and then somehow a way should be found to sell the Discussion Forum as a valuable discussion tool for those searching for good hosts. There is not enough emphasis on the Discussion Forum in the Free Webhost Directory. Which is a pity, as this Forum has a very high concentration of specialists and to me their honest scrutiny can only be of benefit to hostees, once they've made their way to the Discussion Forum.

Perhaps a connection can be achieved between the Free Webhost Directory and the Discussion Forum by making a post on an offer basis in the Discussion Forum a prerequisite for a listing in the Free Webhost Directory. So that all listings could be scrutinized by members of this Forum first. Sort of get the FWS Seal of Approval by way of a discussion and then link it up with the listing in the Free Webhost Directory when it is finally approved. If I would then search the Free Webhost Directory for the first time, I could click on the Discussion Forum thread that had discussed the initial application for a listing.
:)
 

Jan

Forum Cleaner
NLC
Completely agree that registered businesses should be the only ones allowed to advertise.
May as well close the forum down then. There aren't a lot of free hosts that are likely to register their little "business". Many an established host started off as one of these wannabes that you're all against.

Give them a chance and quit shooting them down in flames for trying. As with the last 10 years the majority of them will fail and will repeat and rinse for the next 10 years to come. If you don't like what they post, pass by the thread and leave them alone.
 

Zombie

You're not safe.
NLC
NLC
May as well close the forum down then. There aren't a lot of free hosts that are likely to register their little "business". Many an established host started off as one of these wannabes that you're all against.

Give them a chance and quit shooting them down in flames for trying. As with the last 10 years the majority of them will fail and will repeat and rinse for the next 10 years to come. If you don't like what they post, pass by the thread and leave them alone.
No, they need to be beaten in the head with retard bricks.
/trollinfws/
 

Seraphim

Active Member
Imagine if I went and opened a McDonald's on the local street corner to "get my feet wet" and "see if I can handle it" before going official, without having the appropriate licenses, permits, etc. Do you think the state and city would go for that?

People seem to think that rules relating to business do not apply on the Internet. And unfortunately, there is no regulation. The states and countries don't hunt these kids down for operating illegal businesses. Being strapped for cash absolutely does not excuse you from not going about the offical and appropriate means of creating a business. If you're strapped for cash, you probably shouldn't be opening a "business" in the first place.

Completely agree that registered businesses should be the only ones allowed to advertise. It would not be a difficult thing for the mods here to verify, and would cut down on the illegal businesses. Secondly, there should be an age verification. Nobody under 18 should be allowed to advertise, since technically speaking (at least here in the US), minors can't engage in contracts. They really shouldn't be conducting business in the first place.

Probably because they come here making ridiculous offers and get blasted by the legitimate folk.
There's also a scale thing to consider. Running a restaurant as a hobby just plain doesn't fit, it is too large and involved to really be practical. And anything that has necessary permits and licensing requirements you kind of do have to have registered in order to get the necessary permits to do it, it cannot legally be done as a hobby.

But starting a web host as a hobby project that matures into a full fledged business is completely possible and how a lot of people here probably did get started, as there are little to no permits required in most areas. They should not be denied the ability to advertise here just because their services have not yet reached a big enough scale to be worth transforming from a hobby into a true business. Not only that, but it is indeed possible to start a web host on a tight budget and stay stable with it. But a tight budget means that they might not be able to afford all of the legal procedures to become a proper business right away, not until they start getting enough profits from the service itself to pay for that.

Plus unless I was given misinformation, a business has to be able to declare profit every few years or else it is not really a business and will likely be investigated as a fraud coverup. New hosting startups will not meet this requirement for quite some time, in fact I am almost two years in on my own host and still not sure if I'll be able to pull that one off without some serious redelegation of cashflow when it comes to tax time.

I will however agree with making an 18+ requirement for advertising web hosts. That makes sense because even though you do exclude some of the kid startups you also make sure that the liability of the operation is covered and that all contracts are binding. Although people often lie about their age to get what they want, so it won't be completely effective, most places that have an age requirement simply make it a bannable offense to lie about it.
 

deeplist

Entrepreneur
NLC
May as well close the forum down then. There aren't a lot of free hosts that are likely to register their little "business". Many an established host started off as one of these wannabes that you're all against.

Give them a chance and quit shooting them down in flames for trying. As with the last 10 years the majority of them will fail and will repeat and rinse for the next 10 years to come. If you don't like what they post, pass by the thread and leave them alone.
So you're actually promoting illegal business transactions to take place here and just turn a blind eye? Oh, and nobody said anything about it being specifically targeted to "free" hosts, but all hosts, free OR paid. Especially paid since there's a transaction of money involved. There needs to be SOMETHING in place that prevents any duface online from coming here and advertising nonsense "companies" that do not really exist.

Remember all than crap that went down a month or so ago about that Ivan guy from Servelayer that I outted for running an illegal business and using a nulled WHMCS license? He was flaunting his paid hosting plans all over the place and look now ---> http://servelayer.com

I mean come on.

There's also a scale thing to consider. Running a restaurant as a hobby just plain doesn't fit, it is too large and involved to really be practical. And anything that has necessary permits and licensing requirements you kind of do have to have registered in order to get the necessary permits to do it, it cannot legally be done as a hobby.
Running a webhost may be considered a "hobby" to you, but if you're making money from it, how is it still a hobby? A hobby is something you do in your spare time because you enjoy doing it, not something you make money from. Once you start making money, it's a source of income, regardless of whether you consider it to be a hobby or not, the source of the income still needs to be reported to the IRS and the name that you're doing business under needs to be registered with your state's SOS.

That whole bit about not having the money up front to cover licensing costs is a load of crap too because it typically costs between $30 and $50 to file with a state's SOS devision and if you can't come up with thirty bucks to go about this the right way, then you have no business running a "company" at all.
 

Seraphim

Active Member
Running a webhost may be considered a "hobby" to you, but if you're making money from it, how is it still a hobby? A hobby is something you do in your spare time because you enjoy doing it, not something you make money from. Once you start making money, it's a source of income, regardless of whether you consider it to be a hobby or not, the source of the income still needs to be reported to the IRS and the name that you're doing business under needs to be registered with your state's SOS.

That whole bit about not having the money up front to cover licensing costs is a load of crap too because it typically costs between $30 and $50 to file with a state's SOS devision and if you can't come up with thirty bucks to go about this the right way, then you have no business running a "company" at all.
In this area, the state has guidelines defining how much money you are allowed to make on a hobby before you have to declare it. It's around a hundred dollars or so last I found out what the specifics of it were, and that is designed so that they aren't forcing all the high school upperclassmen doing part time summer help to register businesses for it just to make a quick buck with their spare time.

And that's interesting that it can be done so cheap. Kinda makes it pointless if you think about it, because if a business is registered the business eats the liability and can simply disappear, whereas someone running a host in their own name without registration is personally liable for anything bad that happens out of their own pockets.

That's why someone like you would be using an LLC. If your host were compromised in some way that caused a legal scenario for you, your LLC would take the hit on your behalf and keep your own name clean unless investigations found you had committed crimes using the LLC as a front. It's meant to be a shield in that regard, but it is only good for one big hit and then the LLC collapses and has to be remade under a new name.

It doesn't matter if they are a registered business or not. When things go wrong people still have plenty of ways to cut and run leaving everyone hanging. All that requiring registrations do is cripples the market to only people who actually have been around long enough to be established to that level.

Plus, of the hosts here how many actually are registered? I believe a poll is in order to find out, because if they did force registration to advertise here it would give some members a near monopoly over the few clients that do come to this forum to search for hosting.
 
Last edited:

deeplist

Entrepreneur
NLC
And that's interesting that it can be done so cheap. Kinda makes it pointless if you think about it, because if a business is registered the business eats the liability and can simply disappear, whereas someone running a host in their own name without registration is personally liable for anything bad that happens out of their own pockets.
That is the benefit of having a legitimate corporation. The business eats the liabilities instead of the individual. The fees and the footwork that goes into starting a real company are actually very minimal, but none-the-less, it's effective at weeding out kids and people who really don't want to go through the hassle.
 

Decker

Officially Old!
NLC
But starting a web host as a hobby project that matures into a full fledged business is completely possible.
Out of all you said this is the part that gets to everyone, if it's a hobby you do it with friends not global.

Too many people just start up and then go away, with peoples money.

That's the no-no that get's everyone upset.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top