what is your take on the situation in Genoa, Italy, and on the topic of globalization

[niv]

i was just listening to NPR news and i heard that the riots had gotten worse at the summit in Genoa (although some of the protestors were doing their thing quietly), and that a militant anarchist group whose origin is from Germany, had raided a post office, attacked some riot police, and had smashed down store windows. i don't see what they are fighting against. what's your take on this situation?

 

[Giancarlo]

They are fighting against the benefit of the people. I say they should be crushed in their pathetic rebellion. I support the Italian Police's use of force, most of Italy supports Captialism and Global Trade... so most of the protestors are from different countries. I say deploy more Police and the Army. They are trying to screw with the people's wish to get the best for themselves, and they won't succeed.

I am obviously a pro-Captialist.

 

[niv]

This is completely biased, but I'm thinking that they are selfish, and that they don't care about the future of this planet.

They are fighting against

1) A fund to help find a cure for AIDS (currently a billion dollars)
2) Trying to help third-world nations repay their debts
3) Stopping global warming


I mean come on, do they have a legitimate reason to protest?

 

[Giancarlo]

Look if we don't make the Global Economy become more efficent... Africa will go more down the tubes. This would mean free trade... which could be a lifesaver for some nations with a national deficit of 200% of the GDP. These Groups are protesting against this! What hypocracy.

They don't have any reason to protest nor should they, they should be applauding this. Their own ideas are completely hypocritical if they protest this.

 

[jason]

i am against globaliztion because in the end the only ppl who benifit are the already rich corporations. These corporations will abuse the free trade deal because they can expand their manufactoring of products to places that have no labour rights or enviromental laws. however the protesters are going about it all wrong. it looks like they came for a fight wearing gasmasks and constantly throwing things at the cops. but one protester was shot dead and i think thats going to far.

 

[Giancarlo]

Originally posted by jason
i am against globaliztion because in the end the only ppl who benifit are the already rich corporations. These corporations will abuse the free trade deal because they can expand their manufactoring of products to places that have no labour right or enviromental laws. however the protesters are going about it all wrong. it looks like they came for a fight wearing gasmasks and constantly throwing things at the cops. but once protester was shot dead and i think thats going to far.

I hate to break this to you, but globalization is the only way money can be distrubuted to the people. The Corporations will profit therefore rising the wages of the workers. Your understanding of captialism is quite incorrect. It is the only system that generates money for the people and without it you wouldn't be in your fancy middle class house. That is right, Captialism created the middle class.

 

[jason]

who says they will rise the wages if they don't have to? nike makes shoes in third world countries and profits from it but they haven't raised wages or bettered working enviroments. The only reason we have the wages we have today is because of unions, if it were up the coroporations we would be working 70 hour work weeks for 1.50 an hour.

 

[niv]

You are leaving out the government. Ever heard of Al Smith? He was governor of new york in the early 20th century and he fought for labor reform. He worked almost 20 hours every day to support his family. He rose in the ranks of Tamany Hall and became governor, and when the Triangle Shirtwaist Fire came around in 1911 (which killed over 150 people), he was the first to take a stand.

 

[Giancarlo]

The Practices of Corporations done in the 19th Century is over. Anyways these malpractices occured under State-Owned Corporations such as Communism. The money gets generated for the people and incomes go higher as more people work to get where they deserve to.

 

[niv]

All I'm saying is that some politicans do care for the welfare of the people.

 

[Giancarlo]

I think George W. Bush is one of them. You might put your head back and laugh.

 

[jason]

i may not know much about the ways of capitalism, though it seems to be the best system we've got it is far from perfect. it relies on the poor staying poor and the rich staying rich. if everyone was even middle class who would make the burgers at mcdonalds or pick up the trash from the street? and a small note about Geneva, over 100 000 protesters were out today. the ppl have spoken.

 

[Giancarlo]

The people aren't speaking, these groups are dumb Anarchists and Communists who hardly make the majority, they are the minority and come from several dozen different countries. These are groups of people who don't want the best for the nation. Captialism makes the Middle and Upper Class, whereas Communism makes everyone Poor. The majority of people in Western Nations support Captialism.

 

[niv]

these people are forgetting that globalization is now a part of life, and you can't do a damn thing about it, and it's not just in other countries than the United States, but the United States itself. the United States gains more and more cultural diversity as the days go by.

 

[Giancarlo]

And some of these people are pro-Communist and obviously forget how the conditions where towards the people in the USSR. Not good, you were the cattle of the state and you would get tortured to get tremendous jobs done, what I mean is you would work twenty hour shifts in a stinking factory. How is that for communism!

 

[Toefur]

what I mean is you would work twenty hour shifts in a stinking factory. How is that for communism

Ahhh, it's a good thing we brought the wonders of Capitalism to all those Nike and such workers

 

[Giancarlo]

Considering that they would make way less than what Nike Pays them it is a good thing... look, the pay may be pathetic compared to the US, I mean really little, but it is more than what they would be making. Captialism generates the middle class, communism does not... it only makes everyone poor.

 

[WorldWarGeneral]

Capitlialsim is great. Sure, there are poor. There are poor in any government system. In a capitalist society, people have the chance to better themselves and become wealthy. There will always be the poor and the destitute, but you can't hold back progress because it will hurt a small group of people. Globalization will bring stronger world economies - which means better living conditions for most people. Sure, there will be people who don't benefit, and some that will suffer, but most will do better. Perhaps full free trade will shine a light on the terrible working conditions in some factories. With free trade, maybe third-world countries won't have to rely so much on foreign aid, and will become inspired to develop their own industrial base and economy. With decent economies, governments will be more willing to introduce labor legislation in order to create a more productive work force. The betterment of the many has to take priority to the plight of the few.

 

[jason]

i am not for communism i am a for capitalism for the most part but what i have seen happen here is small town ontario since NAFTA out of 15 factories once in my town there are only 4 left. all closed down and moved to mexico or the U.S. what are the workers supposed to do? what i see globalization doing is making the entire world fair game so the factories can move to africa where there are no labour or enviromental laws so they can make their product cheaper and gain more profit, sure you make the arguement that eventually these rules will be put in place but how long will it take? 100 years like it did in northa america? i feel if this is going to happen all countries participating in this should have a minimum wage, labour, enviromental laws and ppl to overlook them put in place before hand.

 

[Giancarlo]

Originally posted by WorldWarGeneral
Capitlialsim is great. Sure, there are poor. There are poor in any government system. In a capitalist society, people have the chance to better themselves and become wealthy. There will always be the poor and the destitute, but you can't hold back progress because it will hurt a small group of people. Globalization will bring stronger world economies - which means better living conditions for most people. Sure, there will be people who don't benefit, and some that will suffer, but most will do better. Perhaps full free trade will shine a light on the terrible working conditions in some factories. With free trade, maybe third-world countries won't have to rely so much on foreign aid, and will become inspired to develop their own industrial base and economy. With decent economies, governments will be more willing to introduce labor legislation in order to create a more productive work force. The betterment of the many has to take priority to the plight of the few.

Very Nicely put.

In Communism/Socialism you remain poor. A good example of a working Captialist country is Chile with +6% some odd Gross Domestic Product Growth, and +12% Industrial Production Output Increases every year. The Chilean Economy is by far the most stable, and 60-70% of the Country is Middle or Upper Class, and this has been increasing in size in the past few years. Chile went from a Socialist Republic in 1973 where people would earn horse shit, to a Captialist Society where people are naming their children after American Companies... it's true. Chile has the most stable banking system in the world, surpassing Switzerland. Chile attracts massive amounts of foreign investment from Europe, America and Japan. This is still a fact despite the minor crisis in Argentina. Argentina is another grand example of captialism, sure there has been a crisis the past three years, but from 1991-1998, the Argentine Economy grew by an unprecendented +45%. They could get off their feet and act now. Chile and Argentina are examples where the Middle Class exceeds 45%.

Globalization will bring a new era of technological advances, for the people. Globalization is for, by, and designed for the best of the people. I feel the Countries could immediately get strinkingly high growth, that previously did not get any infact negativity, will enact new laws to prevent over-pollution, Jason. We are on a new era of technological break-through, and cannot restricted industry and commerce, or there will be no technological break-throughs. Bush is doing a fine job with America and the world.

Countries I see having high growth potential immediately

Argentina - GDP Per Captia - $10,000 - Growth: Negilible
Chile - GDP Per Captia - $13,500 - Growth: +6 - +7% Annually
Gabon (Africa) - GDP Per Captia - $6,000 - Growth: +10% - +15% Annually

Countries that could have high potential because of globalization

Zaire - GDP Per Captia - $100 - Growth: -15% (Plenty of Resources, and new President coming to peace with neighbors)
Kenya - GDP Per Captia - $1,200 - Growth: +1.5% (Great Tourist Potential, and Decent base for Industrial Growth)

I certainly did not name the all of the countries that could have high potential.