[PROJECT] Free webhost (ad-free or post2host)

[maximoesje]

Hi,
Some friends and I would like to start a free webhost (we're with 12). We have enough money to buy 3 servers and we can afford to put them in a datacentre with 10 TB transfer/server. I guess this isn't that bad...
But... If we wanted to make some money out of it to buy new servers / pay the datacentre bills (so we have to pay less, money isn't a problem), what should we do?
- forced ads
- post2host
- combination of forced ads/post2host?

And about the packages : are these packages good?
(Space / Bandwith)
- 50mb / 2gb
- 100 mb / 4 gb
- 150 mb / 6 gb
- 200 mb / 8 gb
- 300 mb / 10 gb

We want to be stable and have happy customers. We do not want to oversell (or discuss overselling).

Anyone got remarks/tips/...?

 

[-flip-]

1. Do you really think your server will be fast enough with a traffic of 10TB a month?
I don't think with free hosting you will ever reach that much traffic.
Just start with one server, and I sure 1TB would be fairly enough for the first month.
'Cause you should know getting clients isn't that simple.
If money really isn't a problem, you could offer bigger packages (so you would get more client within the first month).

Personally I think the packages are okay, but you will never reach 10TB/month and have a fast/reliable server.


2. Overselling isn't bad, most users won't reach 1/2 of their package.
So personally I think overselling is okay, as long as you keep an eye on your total traffic (and upgrade if needed).


3. You don't earn anything with post2host, but then you have an active community.
The thing is that a lot of people just want to make their 20 posts, and it'll just be spam.
I think it's better to encourage your clients to be active, and provide your clients a nice place to 'hang out' and help eachother (and you should know that maintain a forum is a lot of work!)

Personally I don't like ads, but it's the best way to 'get' some money out of your clients.
If money really isn't a problem you could start with ads only an the (404) error pages.


4. It's important to have a good and fast support system, I prefer a ticketing system (you could also just have a support e-mail adress, but it's not that simple to keep everyting 'under control)


5. Customers don't like downtime, so if your server ever goes down for more then 30 minutes --> inform your customers (a news-message on your homepage)
longer then 4 hours --> sent out an e-mail explaining them why you were offline


I hope you understand what I'm trying to say (I know my english isn't that good and I hope it was helpfull.


PS.
It would be nice if you could inform me when your service was online

 

[JonnyH]

Hi,
Some friends and I would like to start a free webhost (we're with 12). We have enough money to buy 3 servers and we can afford to put them in a datacentre with 10 TB transfer/server. I guess this isn't that bad...
But... If we wanted to make some money out of it to buy new servers / pay the datacentre bills (so we have to pay less, money isn't a problem), what should we do?
- forced ads
- post2host
- combination of forced ads/post2host?

And about the packages : are these packages good?
(Space / Bandwith)
- 50mb / 2gb
- 100 mb / 4 gb
- 150 mb / 6 gb
- 200 mb / 8 gb
- 300 mb / 10 gb

We want to be stable and have happy customers. We do not want to oversell (or discuss overselling).

Anyone got remarks/tips/...?

Go paid. If you do want to stick with free hosting. Advertise advert space and get some sponsors of some sort then make your website P2H I suppose.

 

[nlfjamie]

and they are bad plans

I 500mb/2gb would match better then 50

 

[-flip-]

and they are bad plans

I 500mb/2gb would match better then 50

I doubt that... if you upload 500mb, you allready used 1/4 of the bandwidth.
I now you probably won't upload 500mb at once, but still...

 

[maximoesje]

and they are bad plans

I 500mb/2gb would match better then 50

90% of all websites on the internet are not bigger than 5mb.
And if you would use the full 500mb, only 4 visitors could see the entire site in 1 month... :tired2:

 

[Sitebee]

3. You don't earn anything with post2host, but then you have an active community.
The thing is that a lot of people just want to make their 20 posts, and it'll just be spam.
I think it's better to encourage your clients to be active, and provide your clients a nice place to 'hang out' and help each other (and you should know that maintain a forum is a lot of work!)

Not entirely true, but its not the easy way to do it but in the long run Its works..

Its just trail and error, you have to find out works best, dont just count on ads either.

 

[Schmarvin]

90% of all websites on the internet are not bigger than 5mb.
And if you would use the full 500mb, only 4 visitors could see the entire site in 1 month... :tired2:

Interesting, a couple of mine use well over 500MB disk space. xD Most of that is in databases. Lol. I store too much information.

 

[maximoesje]

Interesting, a couple of mine use well over 500MB disk space. xD Most of that is in databases. Lol. I store too much information.

OK, maybe you do use more then 500MB. But the avarage blog/forum or any other common php/mysql script won't use more then 50MB. (there will always be exceptions).
I still wonder why everybody keeps asking for xGB space?

 

[maximoesje]

1. Do you really think your server will be fast enough with a traffic of 10TB a month?

We don't want to use the full 10TB - we just get 10TB with our package. (connections )

If money really isn't a problem, you could offer bigger packages (so you would get more client within the first month).

Money isn't a problem to host our 3 servers, but it is a problem to host more then that... We (friends and I) made some basic rules : We won't oversell, we want as good as 100% uptime, we don't want to get broke and we would never let eachother down. So money isn't a problem as long as we stay small.

Personally I think the packages are okay, but you will never reach 10TB/month and have a fast/reliable server.

We don't want to/have to reach 10TB/Month...

Overselling isn't bad, most users won't reach 1/2 of their package.

We simply won't. With the badwith we got we would have to oversell the space first, which we simply wont. No further discussion please about overselling please. We'll never do it.

3. You don't earn anything with post2host, but then you have an active community.

And what about ads on the forum?

I think it's better to encourage your clients to be active, and provide your clients a nice place to 'hang out' and help eachother (and you should know that maintain a forum is a lot of work!)

We're with 12, moderating a forum shouldn't be that hard with 12 trustable and experienced moderators

Personally I don't like ads, but it's the best way to 'get' some money out of your clients.
If money really isn't a problem you could start with ads only an the (404) error pages.

It's important to have a good and fast support system, I prefer a ticketing system (you could also just have a support e-mail adress, but it's not that simple to keep everyting 'under control)

We'd use Google Apps, and encourage users to use google apps. Is that an easy way to keep e-mails under control? And we would provide a ticket system

5. Customers don't like downtime, so if your server ever goes down for more then 30 minutes --> inform your customers (a news-message on your homepage)
longer then 4 hours --> sent out an e-mail explaining them why you were offline

We all live withing 15 minutes of the datacentre and one of our friends works there, so we got enough support to handle the uptime

PS.
It would be nice if you could inform me when your service was online

Could you tell me why you'd like to know? Not that I don't want to share that information, but if you're implying for reselling or something like that... We won't do that.

Go paid. If you do want to stick with free hosting. Advertise advert space and get some sponsors of some sort then make your website P2H I suppose.

How would we gain money with a P2H (If we can't earn money by letting users post, why let them do it)

 

[-flip-]

Allright, thanks to make this clear.
I don't know about your TOS and the specs of your server(s), but if you allow proxies, etc... (all other things that use a lot of resources), the problem will be the load, not the traffic
It's probably not possible to oversell AND have a fast server, so you shouldn't look at the traffic stats, but at the load of your server.

About the ads on post2host forums... just asked around, you'll not get (enough) money out of them.
If you place ads on your clients pages, everyone will see them.
When you only place them on your forum, only your clients will see (and click) them.
If you can sell some adspace on your forum, at a good rate, this might be more intresting (like Jonny said)

Google apps is okay, but it won't be good enough for 3 servers (so when you got a lot of clients).
MSN/AIM is fast, and you said you you had 12 other friends helping you, maybe you could set up a support chat?

Could you tell me why you'd like to know? Not that I don't want to share that information, but if you're implying for reselling or something like that... We won't do that.

I only asked because I would've liked to test your hosting... but I looks like you rather don't want me to do that:confused4

And to end with, don't let business ruin your friendship

 

[maximoesje]

Google apps is okay, but it won't be good enough for 3 servers (so when you got a lot of clients).

OK, but what has the number of servers to do with that? But I get the point that it can get messy with a lot of clients

MSN/AIM is fast, and you said you you had 12 other friends helping you, maybe you could set up a support chat?

You mean like a msn-adres that people could use to contact us, and that there's always someone online? And what do you think of support on the forums?

I only asked because I would've liked to test your hosting... but I looks like you rather don't want me to do that:confused4

We'd like to have someone to test our hosting It's just that I thought that you wanted to stay in touch for a 'special' deal, like a reseller or VPS, or something like that...

And to end with, don't let business ruin your friendship

We're very good friends, and we know eachother weaknesses (and strengths).

Anyway, we got the advice to 'practice' before getting into the 'real' hosting world : a free reseller or something like that... Anyone knows if this is a good idea?

 

[-flip-]

OK, but what has the number of servers to do with that? But I get the point that it can get messy with a lot of clients

Well, you got it right. I just meant it could get messy with a lot of clients.
Support on forums is usefull (other members can also help them). But sometimes you have to contact an admin, an then it's good to have a ticketting system/online chat/e-mail adress.

And it's good to hear someone allready informed you about friend and business. You could start with a reseller --> VPS --> dedicated --> collocated.
I'm quiet sure it's a good idea to start with a reseller, the only thing you have to do is: 1. pay the hosting 2. set up a site, forum, ticketting system, ... 3. attract customers & support them
And probably if you grow a VPS is a good idea. But you could also start with a VPS... that depends on how much money, knowledge, ... you got

Succes with your project!

PS.
If you need someone to test your hosting, just drop a PM

 

[Decker]

Sorry I just seen this thread, can I ask about this part..

Some friends and I would like to start a free webhost (we're with 12).

Is that your age in brackets?

If you have the money to start up with 3 start up with 1. Save it till you need it.

First get ads you can earn from, google won't cut it for forced, and you may have to take 'bad taste ads'

Once you've decided on ads then come back - I'll assume you have enough money for one month of renting 3 servers. Don't do it yet - and which of you know's how to manage them/it?

 

[maximoesje]

Sorry I just seen this thread, can I ask about this part..



Is that your age in brackets?

If you have the money to start up with 3 start up with 1. Save it till you need it.

First get ads you can earn from, google won't cut it for forced, and you may have to take 'bad taste ads'

Once you've decided on ads then come back - I'll assume you have enough money for one month of renting 3 servers. Don't do it yet - and which of you know's how to manage them/it?

That's the amount of friends we're doing this... We have enough money to keep the servers forever, but it would be nice if we could make some money to lower the bill.

 

[maximoesje]

Well, you got it right. I just meant it could get messy with a lot of clients.
Support on forums is usefull (other members can also help them). But sometimes you have to contact an admin, an then it's good to have a ticketting system/online chat/e-mail adress.

And it's good to hear someone allready informed you about friend and business. You could start with a reseller --> VPS --> dedicated --> collocated.
I'm quiet sure it's a good idea to start with a reseller, the only thing you have to do is: 1. pay the hosting 2. set up a site, forum, ticketting system, ... 3. attract customers & support them
And probably if you grow a VPS is a good idea. But you could also start with a VPS... that depends on how much money, knowledge, ... you got

Succes with your project!

PS.
If you need someone to test your hosting, just drop a PM

That's not what I tried to say. We do know how to manage a server, but we don't know anything about promoting a host, providing a decent support service, how to earn some money with ads or web stats. That's why another friend told us to start with a free reseller to learn how to do that.
We don't need to go all the way (reseller->VPS->dedicated->co-located) since we have the money to buy our own 3 servers...

 

[-flip-]

That's not what I tried to say. We do know how to manage a server, but we don't know anything about promoting a host, providing a decent support service, how to earn some money with ads or web stats. That's why another friend told us to start with a free reseller to learn how to do that.
We don't need to go all the way (reseller->VPS->dedicated->co-located) since we have the money to buy our own 3 servers...

Well... you made it clear you had enough money. But why pay for 3 servers when you can't fill a single one?
As I said, you could also go from reseller to your own server, but the 'step' is much bigger (so your server won't even be filled the first month for like 1/8).
I don't know where you got all the money, 'cause I think a server costs more then buying some bandwidth and space in a datacentre, you have to buy spare parts when something become defective, etc...
And I would like to believe the one who knows how to reinstall a computer, knows how to do it fast and doesn't live to far away from the datacentre (and want to wake up at 04.00am in the morning because your server went down), 'cause customers don't like downtime at all.

After all the things you said, it seems to me you and some friends have to much money and want to 'waste' it on free webhosting.
I'm sure you won't be able to pay for it 'forever', so as long as you keep on saying money isn't a problem, I wouldn't become a client.

I do think this is a great idea, and a great opportunity to learn how to 'have' a webhosting company (and maybe start a paid one in the near future).
But I think it's a better idea to start searching for a way to 'earn' some money (so you don't have to pay it yourself anymore, but also don't have a lot of profit).

 

[maximoesje]

Well... you made it clear you had enough money. But why pay for 3 servers when you can't fill a single one?
As I said, you could also go from reseller to your own server, but the 'step' is much bigger (so your server won't even be filled the first month for like 1/8).
I don't know where you got all the money, 'cause I think a server costs more then buying some bandwidth and space in a datacentre, you have to buy spare parts when something become defective, etc...
And I would like to believe the one who knows how to reinstall a computer, knows how to do it fast and doesn't live to far away from the datacentre (and want to wake up at 04.00am in the morning because your server went down), 'cause customers don't like downtime at all.

After all the things you said, it seems to me you and some friends have to much money and want to 'waste' it on free webhosting.
I'm sure you won't be able to pay for it 'forever', so as long as you keep on saying money isn't a problem, I wouldn't become a client.

I do think this is a great idea, and a great opportunity to learn how to 'have' a webhosting company (and maybe start a paid one in the near future).
But I think it's a better idea to start searching for a way to 'earn' some money (so you don't have to pay it yourself anymore, but also don't have a lot of profit).

We are able to pay it as long as we want. Datacentre costs aren't high and we're with 12 : each and everyone of us pays 1/12th of the bill. That isn't too much. OK, maybe not forever, but as long as we want (hopefully forever).

Anyway, we are discussing about having a free reseller or using an old computer to start with, to learn some things about customer support...

Anyway, we're trying to develop a good customer support. We'd provide ticket, e-mail and forum support.

A friend of mine stumbled upon byethost (myownfreehost) and he really likes it. He'd love to make a byethost supported webhost without ads or P2H, but with awesome support, like setting up your co.cc/uni.cc/afraid.org domain name, installing your blog/forum/... or setting up google apps. He'd do this on his own (he's not leaving us - it's a second project). If someone is willing to cooperate with him, let me know.

 

[Kwek]

After all the things you said, it seems to me you and some friends have to much money and want to 'waste' it on free webhosting.
I'm sure you won't be able to pay for it 'forever', so as long as you keep on saying money isn't a problem, I wouldn't become a client.

Why wouldn't be able to pay for it 'forever'? You know nothing much about their real-life; for all you know, they could be earning a few ten thousands per month. Of course, that also applies for the opposite; but looking at the fact that 12 people are paying the bills I doubt any serious financial problem would come up.

maximoesje, are you out to gain revenue, or just to provide a stable hosting service and hopefully in the process, you gain some revenue to help cover some of the costs? It is not really that clear to me.

If you are not really out to make that much revenue and just hope to provide a steady service, I would recommend you go P2H. I would advise you to make it so that your members have to post monthly, or at least occasionally. In my opinion, P2H generally helps you to keep a better track of your members. You could also know more about them through the posts they make on the forums. This will ensure that you do not let in any potential troublemakers. For example, if one keeps posting warez on the forums you know you would have to watch out for that guy if he had a hosting account. Placing ads on your forums would help to generate some revenue. You could also make an appeal for people who wish to help to place your ads on their sites also. So basically they have the option of choosing whether they want to place their ads to help you out.

If you are out to make money, then forced ads would probably be the best amongst your given options. Nothing pretty much need be said about this since it is fairly straightforward. Members would prefer to be given the freedom to place their ads themselves on their sites, so I would not recommend using a software of some sort to force ads. You should give them the ad code and let them place the ads on their site by themselves. It would be good if you had an option to remove the ads if they paid a small fee monthly. That fee would probably depend on how much you are earning from the ads—if it lowers the revenue then set the price higher.

Just my 2 cents.

Kwek

 

[=dan=]

A friend of mine stumbled upon byethost (myownfreehost) and he really likes it.

Does that mean you own that?