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[Possible Spoiler] Star Wars Storyline

[lhomme]

New Member
Star Wars Storyline

I just saw Episode Two and as it is the only Stars Wars film that I have seen, I am totally confused. With that in mind - is there a site that actually covers the entire storyline of all the movies? Amazingly, all of the Stars Wars sites I could find (using Yahoo and Google ) never actually included the storyline .

Thanks.
 
Well, to hear unbiased reviews of the movies (these last couple), the reason for that would be because there is no coherent storyline to tell. It's just one "dazzling" special effect after another with a thread-bare plot stuck in their to pseudo-tie them together and eventually link back up with the original trilogy. I've always hated Star Wars since the first one. I've not seen AotC and can't tell you a thing about it, but to quote a synopsis from an off-topic post to the Kubrick newsgroup:



(Naturally, no one should read this if you've not seen the movie and do intend to.)




> I defy you to get a kid to give you a coherent synopsis of this film. I
> couldn't make heads or tales out of its plot...

Okay, a kid's coherent synopsis: Bounty hunters try to kill that
pretty queen, and Ani and Obi-Wan chase after the bounty hunters.
They find her and she gives them a name, I think. Then Ani and the
queen have to go to another planet where she'll be safe. They fall in
love. Obi-Wan looks for a planet that isn't on the maps. He goes
there and finds clones being made for an army. He has a saber-fight
with a bounty hunter, but the bounty hunter gets away. Then, Obi-Wan
goes and finds some bad guys. Then the government votes to give power
to the Emperor. Then Ani and the queen go to Tattooine to find his
mom, but she is dead and he kills the bantha raiders. He hates them.
Then, letsee . . . then, he gets a message from Obi-Wan to go where he
found the bad guys, and they find a factory and fall into the factory
and have fights and then are caught. They say they love each other
because they're going to die, and then they get put into this stadium
with Obi-Wan to fight some monsters. Then the Jedi show up to help
them, and a big fight breaks out. Then, Yoda comes along with
everyone else to help them, and a great battle breaks out. Ani and
Obi-Wan face the lead bad guy Dooku, who has great powers. He beats
them, then Yoda fights him, but he gets away somehow. Then an army
full of the clones is shown, and Yoda says that the clone war is going
to start. And Ani and the pretty queen get married next to a big
lake. The End.

[- Chris Cathcart]
 
I'm sure when he released The Illiad and The Odyssey Homer probably got similar reviews from the common folk... to the common folk, Homer just wrote a bunch of special effects and mindless action... because the common folk don't understand the nature of the myth which Homer, like George Lucas, had at the center of his stories.

Many people, probably most, either haven't been exposed to or aren't capable of understanding what Star Wars is actually about. Due to their inability to understand it they blame the films rather than the shallowness of their own thoughts... with anything really good, most of it has to be in the minds of the audience. Those who look for special effects see only special effects. Personally, I like the radio drama adaptations of the original trilogy better than the films... perhaps because the story is deeper and more spectacular than anything which can be projected onto a screen -- only the mind's eye is capable of providing a proper stage.

If you're familiar with monomyths, that would really help. Star Wars is an intricately crafted monomyth, perhaps the best representation of the monomyth to date, heavily influenced by the late Joseph Campbell. (Campbell being perhaps the most important mythologist the world has ever known, and his most famous book being "The Hero With a Thousand Faces." He and George Lucas were good friends and that particular book inspired Star Wars.) But anyhow, in the monomyth external events parallel internal events -- the story action parallels events in the mind.

First, some terms you need to understand: (all quotes are from Yoda except where noted)

The Force - "Life creates it, makes it grow. It's energy surrounds us and binds us. Luminous beings are we... not this crude matter." The force is the energy field of the universe, in and around everything, which is invisible to most but which a small percentage of people have the ability to feel and control. From Obi-Wan Kenobi: "The Force is what gives a Jedi his power. It's an energy field created by all living things. It surrounds us and penetrates us. It binds the galaxy together."

Jedi - "A Jedi's strength flows from the Force." Guardians of peace and justice in the Republic. They officially serve under and take orders from the Chancellor of the Republic, but most of the time they choose to do as their own Jedi Council decides, and give advice to the Chancellor. The Jedi, through the force, have full control of themselves and their surroundings. They see the future, and they anticipate dangers before they occur. They're also able to move objects through thought, by reaching out to the force. However, part of being a Jedi is restricting one's own use of such powers: "A Jedi uses the Force for knowledge and defense, never for attack."

Sith - Sith are much like Jedi, in fact they're a sect of Jedi that split off long ago, but they draw their power from anger. This is the "dark side" of the force. Fear is what drives a person to the dark side. "Fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate leads to suffering." Sith are those who feel the force but use it to their own advantage, against others.


Quick plot summary, covering only the most important millionth of a percent:

Episode I:

Senator Palpatine, a seemingly kindhearted representative of the planet Naboo, is actually a manipulative Sith lord by the name of Darth Siddious. Here in the beginning, under his Sith alter-ego, he makes a deal with the Trade Federation in which he orders them to invade his own planet -- Naboo -- which they've already been blockading in protest against the taxation of trade routes. The reason why Palpatine would have his own planet invaded is political -- he takes advantage of the situation to gain sympathy for himself in the senate, convince the queen of Naboo to call for a vote of no confidence in Chancellor Valorum, and get himself elected Chancellor thanks to a strong sympathy vote.

Meanwhile a young boy is discovered -- a slave -- who shows a higher aptitude for the force than any Jedi ever. His mother says there was no father, and the Jedi believe that this boy -- Anakin Skywalker -- was conceived by the force itself. He is the answer to an ancient prophesy, a prophesy of a boy conceived by the force who will bring balance to the force. This boy, The Chosen One, becomes the Padawan learner (apprentice) of Obi-Wan Kenobi at the last request of Obi-Wan's master who's been slain by Palpatine's apprentice Darth Maul who was in turn slain by Kenobi. The senate and the Jedi at this point think the conflict is over, for they've saved Naboo and destroyed a Sith... however, they don't realize that Palpatine is a Sith and now has control over them as the Chancellor. Thus the title of the film: "The Phantom Menace." The real menace is Palpatine, who sets up the phantom menace to work events to his own advantage.

Episode II:

A civil war has broken out, in which Palpatine's new Sith apprentice, Count Dooku, controls the separatists. Palpatine has crafted a war in which he controls both sides, so that he can create an emergency situation. His first move in Episode II is to manipulate the Jedi -- specifically Obi-Wan Kenobi -- into "discovering" a clone army which he had ordered for the Republic a decade earlier in anticipation of this moment. Obi-Wan follows the trail Palpatine has left to Kamino, where he finds the army ready for delivery. Conveniently, a vote is taking place at the same time on the creation of an army for the Republic to counter the threats of the separatists. Jar Jar Binks is manipulated into suggesting the moment which Palpatine has been waiting his whole life for -- a vote on granting Chancellor Palpatine emergency powers to do as he sees fit without consulting the senate for the duration of the emergency. Now Palpatine has the power he wants, and he has his clone army prepared to do his bidding. The Jedi think the clones are to fight the separatists, but Palpatine -- controlling both sides in the war -- is actually aiming to use the army to subjugate the people of the Republic under his own tyrannical rule.

Meanwhile Anakin, The Chosen One, faces personal challenges which bring him closer to the dark side of the force make him vulnerable to Palpatine's future influence. He falls in love with Padme against his Jedi vows, and can't avoid visions of his mother. On the death of his mother his loses control, lets loose with the dark side of the force. However he's not gone over yet -- he's aggressive, but still a Jedi and still attempts to help his master against Count Dooku who in the end can only be driven away (but not destroyed) by Yoda. Count Dooku returns to Coruscant and reports to Palpatine that everything is going according to plan, and the war has begun. "The force is with us my master." And the Jedi, still unaware, know only that the dark side looms over them. They know Dooku is a Sith, but are still blind to Chancellor Palpatine's dark side due to Palpatine's supreme acting ability.

Episode III:

Script not yet completed. Anakin turns fully to the dark side, and in the name of an emergency situation Palpatine grabs complete power and forms the Empire out of the Republic. Luke and Leia, Anakin's twin children, are born. Anakin becomes Darth Vader and begins to hunt down and destroy the Jedi.

Episode IV:

Emperor Palpatine has created a Death Star (shown briefly in an Episode II schematic), capable of blowing up entire planets, to squash a rebellion which is attempting to challenge his absolute rule and restore the Republic. He demonstrates the power of the battlestation by blowing up the peaceful world of Alderaan, which was sympathetic the rebels. Anakin is by now Darth Vader, the Dark Lord of the Sith who has personally hunted down and destroyed almost all of the Jedi Knights. Now the Jedi are almost extinct from the galaxy... but unknown to Anakin/Vader, his son Luke Skywalker has grown up and will soon be caught up into joining the rebellion by a series of events. Luke Skywalker doesn't know that his father is the Sith lord Vader, instead he's told by Obi-Wan that Vader killed his father. So anyhow, Luke only now learns about the force, having been a farmer until now -- Obi-Wan Kenobi begins to train him out of necessity as he attempts to bring the schematics of the death star to the rebel base so that a weakness can be found. Kenobi is killed by Darth Vader in a duel towards the end of the film, but Luke manages to escape and help destroy the Death Star and keep the rebellion alive.

[I have to cut the post in two since the forum says it's too long]
 
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Episode V:

Palpatine, through Vader, has driven the rebels to a remote ice world and now intends to trap and crush them there. Luke and friends narrowly escape destruction on the ice world of Hoth from which my username is derived. Luke heads off to learn from Yoda, who he learned of from Obi-Wan in a vision while near death in a Hoth blizzard. Yoda teaches Luke of the force, which is difficult because of Luke's inability to follow this advice: "You must unlearn what you have learned" and "Do or do not. There is no try." Meanwhile Darth Vader hunts down Luke's friends, and with the help of Boba Fett captures them. Luke sees this through the force while training with Yoda, and wants to rush off to help them. Yoda cautions him ("Decide you must how to serve them best -- for if you leave now, help them you could, but you would destroy all for which they have fought and suffered") but Luke goes ahead and falls for the bait Vader has set. He arrives in Cloud City where Vader awaits him, and an elaborate system is set up to guide Luke unknowingly towards a carbon freeze chamber where Vader hopes to freeze him and take him to Palpatine. Luke escapes this however, and duels Vader for a while. Vader is trying not to harm Luke, since he wants him alive, but finally after Luke nicks him he lets loose and cuts off Luke's hand. Here, Vader reveals to the unknowing Luke the true fate of his father. Instead of death at the hands of the enemy, Luke is forced to realize that it's his own father who he's fighting -- and as a part of that, he sees the dark side of himself. Thanks to the aid of his friends Luke narrowly escapes death, but is left to try to deal with the truths Obi-Wan had hidden from him.

Episode VI:

Luke returns to complete his training with Yoda, only to find Yoda near death. In his dying moments Yoda says that in order to become a Jedi, Luke must confront Darth Vader again -- and he's warned by Obi-Wan's ghost not to underestimate the powers of Emperor Palpatine, who is himself the real evil manipulating everything towards what he thinks will be the final destruction of the rebels and conversion of Luke into a new servant to replace Vader. Vader obeys his master, brings Luke to Palpatine so that Palpatine can try to turn him to the dark side. In a battle staged by Palpatine, Luke cuts off Vader's hand just as Vader had cut off Luke's hand -- and with that connection made, he refuses to close in for the kill and promises he will never give in to hate or to the dark side. Palpatine sees that Luke will not be turned, and begins to destroy him with force-lightning. The injured Vader watches Palpatine beginning to kill his son, looks at his own missing hand and his son's, finally frees himself from his master and throws Palpatine down the reactor shaft to his death. Anakin returns from the dark side and finally fulfills the prophesy in his dying moments, bringing balance to the force through his son. The son redeems the father, the father saves the son, and the galaxy can begin to rebuild with Palpatine now dead and the Jedi order reborn with Luke. Luke integrates his father's failings into new understanding and Anakin's final return to good means that the fear and anger of the dark side can in fact be controlled and integrated safely -- the force is at last balanced, and the complete individual can rise without danger of the fear and anger dominating.


And on the monomyth side, I'll re-post something I posted on another site:

The entire "galaxy far, far away" can be seen metaphorically as the human mind. In the beginning of the saga (The Phantom Menace) we have a phantom conflict, a case where the conscious mind thinks it's dealing with a minor annoyance issue while the reality of the situation is that the entire foundation is crumbling. There's little awareness of the crumbling foundations in TPM, which is why the destruction still lurks behind cloaks and meddles through political scheming and moves about all other characters as though they're chess pieces, without any of them realizing it.

Imagine your sense of security eroding away and finally leaving you with the realization that you're lost, your life is chaos and you don't have a clue of what you should really be doing with it. At least to a small extent, anyone who's human has to go through something similar. This is what The Phantom Menace is about -- it's the ancient order, a republic 25,000 years old or a life however many years old, beginning to shake apart at the foundations. It's become slow, unresponsive, unable to act, and unwilling to care. It shows all the obvious symptoms of depression. The republic in TPM is undoubtedly a depressed being, one which can no longer function due to its own inability to figure out what it wants to do. This is where the talk of greedy, squabbling delegates comes in, and the lack of interest in the common good.

Palpatine is figure of change who lurks, waiting to be called upon. Palpatine is about order for the sake of order -- he's the reaction which must fill the chaos when the person succumbs. When the old way of life fails, the only way to avoid death is to force yourself into a new system so rigid that it doesn't allow you to think about your old problems. As Lucas has said in interviews, the Empire does not defeat the Republic... rather, the Republic allows itself to become the Empire. (Lucas' rather cynical view he expressed in a recent interview is that all democracies eventually voluntarily surrender their rights to dictators.) The Empire is the sense of stability which is welcomed as the only alternative to chaos, and the oppression it provides is welcome security against falling back into chaos again.

The Star Wars saga is often represented as the battle of good vs. evil, but that's not really what the heart of it is about. The heart of Star Wars is the battle of self vs. self, chaos vs. order, calm vs. fear. The "evil" is the inner destructive tendency toward repression and refusal to confront the actual issues. This unwillingness to confront the issues and inability of the consciousness to reassert a more gentle control over its life is what spans the time from episodes III to IV, certainly.

When viewing the galaxy as a single large mind, the Force is thought. The characters with force powers (Jedi and Sith) represent influences on thought, while other characters fall into place behind the force-users. The dark side is thoughts developing from fear while the light side is calm. Neither calm nor fear has worked in ending the civil war, because each denies the reality of the other and so cannot address the full self. This is where the chosen one comes in. Someone must bring balance, and the chosen one does this by living the side of fear and bringing it back to meet the other side. Anakin brings balance to the force by recognizing the totality of the mind and finally bringing the two sides together in the final moment -- the living force is finally bound to the cosmic force.

Above all, Star Wars as a monomyth is a story of facing yourself in your totality, as a complete individual. At the beginning there's a duality, a sluggish unemotional side contrasted with a harsh and dangerous side driven by fear to act in anger. To attempt to defeat one side or the other is to attempt to defeat yourself -- is a battle of self-destruction which you're sure to lose. To be a complete person requires confronting your own insecurities and fears, and integrating your own dark side into you without letting it dominate and at the same time without ignoring it. (This is shown perfectly by how Luke plays into Palpatine's plans by fighting in Episode VI, and only wins when he throws down his lightsaber and confronts the full reality of himself in all aspects. He finally realizes that he cannot fight himself.) To complete yourself you must come to accept all aspects of yourself and integrate them into their proper spot in the larger whole. Only then can you bring balance to the force of your own mind, of your own thoughts.

(And by the way, as administrator of philosophyforums.com, I am indeed certified as knowledgeable about the philosophical implications of this stuff. ;))
 
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If its such a long time ago, why is technology better? and if Episode 1 and 2 happened before the old ones, why are theyre ships and stuff much better technology and cooler? Like, why would the storm-troopers be people in uniiform, when the old army was clones? Unless the Storm-Troopers ARE the clones!!!! Oh and, in Episode 2, werent they fighting for the wrong side (the jedi)? Count Whateverhisnameis said that he knew palapatine was evil, yet he was building the death star, not palapatine, yet palapatine is the emporor and hes evil and its his deathstar how did he take it from Count Blah? Damn confusing shizzle.
 
Originally posted by Giancarlo
The movie I hear is probably best suited for hyperactive twelve year olds. (Sorry Trenz) :biggrin2:
I hate Star Wars and I seldom watch movies ;)
 
George Lucas is a tired old megalomaniac who really needs to hire himself a competent screenwriter and drop the silly notion that he's leading this half-assed "digital revolution" to overtake film that he's envisioned. Perhaps one day more movies will be shot on video, but with poor latitude, soft focus, and half the resolution of Super8 (which is still further reduced with Lucas's bad habit of framing in post), we ain't there yet. His "revolution" is just riding on the myths surrounding the superiority of all things digital and the hope that no one will remember when there were theaters and not just multiplexes-- theaters that actually had real projectionists, didn't use platters, had large screening rooms and screens to match, actually replaced the bulb in projectors every now and again, and didn't cut the overtures, intermissions, entr'actes, and exits from movies to make room for more previews and a longer ad slideshow.

That was just my reservations against Lucas, now back to the point. ;)

Even before digital, the horrendous errors in the movies are enough to turn me off to them (explosions in space, sound in a vacuum, numerous gravity flaws, just to name a few. I can suspend belief for a few points in a movie, but when it's scene after scene after scene, it's too much. The multitude of continuity and logical errors don't help, either). Any deeper meaning is lost in poor presentation. I'm not going to deny the story (or the ideas from which it derives) may have a subtext. I will admit I've never taken great pains to analyze it like I've for other films, indeed, as I've said, I've not even seen this latest installment, but I do doubt it to be on a Homeric level. Highly doubt it.
 
Dusty, Homer made horrendous errors also. I mean, there isn't really a cyclops on a Mediterranean island. What kind of idiot was Homer to expect anyone to believe that? And then he seriously expects us to believe that a person can swim for days on end without drowning... what an idiot, if he wanted any respect he should've had some kind of real explanation for how Odysseus didn't drown. Plus there are tons of inconsistencies in the chronology, it's so messed up that it looks like he didn't even care... characters age at different rates, events switch around, junk like that. Homer was just a tired old megalomaniac who really needed to hire himself a competent writer.

Realism would kill a myth. The whole of it symbolizes something real, but nothing in the story should be taken as real by itself... events in the story should be exaggerated beyond reality. No character should be complete by their self, because they must be a part of the larger whole. No event should analyzed for scientific content, because it isn't supposed to be scientifically accurate. If you like science fiction, you may not like Star Wars because it isn't really science fiction. It's myth that happens to use some sci-fi elements.

And as far as digital, perhaps it's the fact that I'm not in general a fan of movies that makes me not understand your problem. I can't say I understand why someone would care how the film is made. The result looks good, that's all that matters... although I do wish they'd make radio adaptations of episodes 1 and 2. Pictures in film are overrated, the only good pictures are the ones the mind itself creates.

Originally posted by shizzle
Like, why would the storm-troopers be people in uniiform, when the old army was clones? Unless the Storm-Troopers ARE the clones!!!!

Presumably they are. Not all Jango Fett clones, but probably still clones.

Oh and, in Episode 2, werent they fighting for the wrong side (the jedi)?

The Jedi are fighting for the Republic. As far as they know, the Sith are with the separatists -- Dooku and his master -- so they want to eliminate the separatists. They aren't aware that Palpatine controls both sides, so they're just doing their duty as protectors of the Republic.

Count Whateverhisnameis said that he knew palapatine was evil,

No, he said that a Sith was influencing thousands of senators. He doesn't specify Palpatine. Anyhow, Yoda blows it off as an attempt to create suspicion even though it was in fact a truth. Dooku does want to create suspicion and ironically uses a bit of truth to try to create it... but also he was trying to get Obi-Wan on his side of course, since Obi-Wan didn't yet know for sure that Dooku was a Sith.

yet he was building the death star, not palapatine, yet palapatine is the emporor and hes evil and its his deathstar how did he take it from Count Blah?

Count Dooku is Palpatine's own apprentice, and in the film Dooku says he will take the death star plans to his master on Coruscant where they will be safe. Then, shown in the film, he lands on Coruscant and tells his master, the cloaked Palpatine, that things are going according to plan. This was towards the end, it shows Count Dooku taking the Death Star plans to Palpatine, I guess you missed it.
 
I just have one question...is Palpatine Anakins father? Or is Anakin a clone of Palpatine? Or are the emperor and Palpatine clones? So, there is really two of them...?

EDIT..okay, so not only one :p
 
Originally posted by shizzle
If its such a long time ago, why is technology better? and if Episode 1 and 2 happened before the old ones, why are theyre ships and stuff much better technology and cooler? Like, why would the storm-troopers be people in uniiform, when the old army was clones? Unless the Storm-Troopers ARE the clones!!!! Oh and, in Episode 2, werent they fighting for the wrong side (the jedi)? Count Whateverhisnameis said that he knew palapatine was evil, yet he was building the death star, not palapatine, yet palapatine is the emporor and hes evil and its his deathstar how did he take it from Count Blah? Damn confusing shizzle.
they have more wealth and resources in episodes 1 and 2 [and maybe 3? we'll see] and are much more powerful and prosperous...

in 4, 5, and 6, they've essentially been ex-communicated by anikain and have lost almost everything and are fighting as rebels to regain the empire [i think] from him when he becomes too arrogant and corrupted [to put it mildly]. their spacecrafts and equipment are shit in the latter episodes because they have to start over from scratch.

the clones are the storm troopers in the later episodes... thus boba fett is a storm trooper, but he seems to last so much longer than any of the bumbling storm troopers.
 
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Originally posted by Canuckkev
I just have one question...is Palpatine Anakins father? Or is Anakin a clone of Palpatine? Or are the emperor and Palpatine clones? So, there is really two of them...?

Anakin has no father. As his mother said: "There was no father... I carried him, I gave him birth... I can't explain what happened." This is part of the prophesy, that the chosen one is conceived by the force itself. A common element in myths through the ages, the virgin birth.

Emperor Palpatine is Emperor Palpatine... I would presume there's only one of him (although some non-cannon books say otherwise). Anakin's relationship with him by Episode II is simply that he admires Palpatine and believes him to be above the corruption of the rest of the politicians.
 
Here is my take on it.

The first Star Wars, 4-6, were and are good, because there were groundbreaking at the time and they have action, romance and plot and all that jazz. The effects were tirelessly made by hand, and not just some cheap computer animation.

Episode I and II suck fat donkey dick. All computer animation bullshit SE, horrible plot and it's so ----ing commercialized that people 'think' it's a quality movie just because of the retards who are willing to sit outside of a movie theater for months to be the frist one to watch this crap.
 
Hoth, when you leave a movie and think to yourself it would have been better without the picture, that should be the first big clue that the production was not exactly up to par. I think you're crediting the movies for values you find in the ideas behind them, less for the merits (or lack of them) they earned in their own right.

Much like Planet of the Apes (original, the less said of the remake the better). The moral is very poignant and the message about humanity, although missed by most movie goers, is clear. But that doesn't make up for its poor execution, and that doesn't make it a good movie.

Star Wars is filled with errors, but they're not of the same kind made in the Illiad or the Odyssey. Indeed, many of the errors you mention in Homer's work were not even considered such at the time of its creation. Star Wars does not have the "we knew no better" excuse. Realism would not kill a myth, as you profess it would. A plausible surface plot doesn't remove the possibility of a subtext, the lines themselves shouldn't be there solely to serve what's between them. Look at 2001: ASO. Its Nietzschean ideas aren't lost in a story which, beyond a few errors in gravity (the centrifuge is too small and spins too slowly), is very realistic up until Bowman crosses the Infinite. Realism isn't abandoned for the sake of the underlying point. Even ignoring the errors, wooden dialogue, bad casting (more like bad characterization, but it comes off as bad casting), and contrived plot aren't usually considered virtues.

<Edit: said "are", meant "aren't">
 
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Originally posted by Dusty
Hoth, when you leave a movie and think to yourself it would have been better without the picture, that should be the first big clue that the production was not exactly up to par.

There's no movie in the world as good as a well-written and well-produced radio drama. Movies, as a form of media, are for zombies who either won't or can't think... there's no interaction whatsoever in a movie, the audience just sits there and shuts their brains off. The audience might as well not be there with most movies, it's just the junk on the screen that's there. Star Wars, on the other hand, rises over most movies due to the fact that the stuff on the screen doesn't get stuck in the mindless realism of other movies (including most so-called "deep" ones). Of course many movie-goers aren't capable of being involved in a movie, they don't know how to get their mind involved because they're movie fans too used to being caught up in the passive "I'll sit back here and watch the picture" mode which this form of media is by nature stuck with... it's hard for people who've never known anything better to understand that a great story is one where the author and the listener meet half way, or perhaps even the listener creates the majority with the careful guidance of the author. Naturally those people don't get much out of Star Wars, they only get what's on the screen -- and what's on the screen isn't intended to be complete, it's perfectly crafted to prompt the more complete story in a manner few authors these days remember how to accomplish. The fact that the stuff on screen is not intended as complete without the mind of the viewer -- the fact that the movie is completed in the mind -- is what makes it great.

As Douglas Adams, another author who didn't care much for realism, said: "While radio and cinema are both extremely visual media (yes, I meant to say that) the way in which they each create pictures is very different. Sound is very important to both of them, but on radio you create pictures with words, and in cinema you create them with cameras. Translating between the two of them is a big stretch. (TV is the worst of both worlds. It's not as good at words as radio is because the pictures are a distraction which demand attention, and it's not as good as cinema because the pictures are not nearly as good.)" Of course, any movie is still stuck with the pictures as a distraction no matter how good they look... so it still lags behind the art of radio.

I think you're crediting the movies for values you find in the ideas behind them, less for the merits (or lack of them) they earned in their own right.

A mediocre piece of entertainment is one that shows you something interesting. A great one is one that prompts you to create something interesting for yourself. (Which of course is hard for movies, easier for radio drama.) A real artist is one who sends the listener/viewer on their own journey, not one who drags the listener/viewer somewhere. The best painting isn't the most realistic one, the best painting is the one that inspires the best internal picture. If you don't realize this, and you prefer your realism junk in which everything is constructed on the screen and you just sit there as a passive audience without needing any brain activity at all, well, all I can say is that you're missing out.

There's an art to being a good audience, which requires practice and guidance... that art isn't cultivated at all by films, because films aren't interactive. Books do cultivate the art to some extent, but they often fill in too much... mediocre authors write in everything and give so much detail as to leave no room for the reader. Since most readers aren't well trained enough to have anything to give to a story, this mediocrity is needed for a book to sell. Radio doesn't do much of anything these days of course, since everyone became passive when TV destroyed the art of interactive listening (not to say that everyone used to be good listeners, just a larger percentage), and so the audience isn't capable of doing its part anymore, and so there isn't any funding for it.

Much like Planet of the Apes

Planet of the Apes does nothing for me... junk, in my opinion. I don't find it important. It tells an external story only -- the meaning behind it, even though it's a meaning about the current world, is an external meaning and is tied through direct realist means to the events of the film. There's no real psycological content there at all.

Realism would not kill a myth, as you profess it would.

Yes it would. A myth cannot be realistic, because it wouldn't be a myth anymore. And Homer did most certainly realize that his chronology was messed up, and that there weren't cyclopses... it is simply a fact that people in his day had a better understanding of the nature of myth and so realized that this was done for effect. They would have been upset and dissapointed if Homer had written something more realistic, they wanted to see those "mistakes" for very good reason -- they knew what it really meant when time didn't pass evenly, instead of shouting "hey, you messed up" like you would. Very obviously, things like explosions in space are done for effect also.

As explained here, for example: "Of course, nothing in mythic plots adheres to the conventions of realism; it is all guided to fulfill the hero's 'destiny.' And what is destiny but a supernatural 'Force' which arranges for things to happen? It is another word for the belief in the magical omnipotence of thought."

Any author who attempts to use realism is writing a myth is hanging their self. Those who look for realism shouldn't be reading a myth. Realism has its own conventions which should be entirely ignored by the myth, for the myth should be making an effort to detach itself from reality in order to draw the Campbellian patterns clearly. If Homer were writing a myth today, I'm sure he'd make the same mistakes, and for good reason, just as Lucas does. Homer's works would not be as important and would've ended up rather dry and most likely lost and burned in history if they'd been realistic.

It's not as though I'm the only one who notices. Joseph Campbell found Star Wars to be one of the most clearly and perfectly crafted myths he'd encountered. Campbell found the lack of realism to be perfect... and since Campbell knew more about myths than perhaps anyone in the history of this planet, one might think him qualified to judge what does and doesn't belong in a monomyth.

Look at 2001

Obviously, 2001 is in no way a monomyth... it's science fiction. 2001 is a 15 minute movie stretched out for hours. Junk, pointless, just floats around and tries to show pretty pictures. The philosophical content could be condensed to about 5 minutes, it simply gets called artistic because it puts on a picture display... a very nice slideshow, if you're into that sort of thing. It doesn't really prompt the viewer to create anything of their own... it's good only for someone who has no imagination and therefore wants the filmmaker's implanted and doesn't mind not being allowed one of their own. Sure, it's about the evolution of humanity and it's about the power of thought... but it really doesn't do anything with it, it just uses that as a flimsy background for the slideshow.
 
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Everyone Know The Song "American Pie" by Don McLean, good, well for a stupid song summary of Episode I, then sing the following Lyrics to the tune of that song. If you actually want the song it is called "The Saga Begins" and it is by Weird Al.
A long long time ago
in a galaxy far away
Naboo was under an attack
And I thought me and Qui-Gon Jinn
Could talk the Federation into
Maybe cutting them a little slack
But their response, it didn't thrill us
They locked the doors and tried to kill us
We escaped from that gas
Then met Jar Jar and Boss Nass
We took a bongo from the scene
And we went to Theed to see the queen
We all wound up on Tatooine
That's where we found this boy...

Oh my my, this here Anakin guy
May be Vader someday later - now he's just a small fry
And he left his home and kissed his mommy goodbye
Sayin' "Soon I'm gonna be a Jedi"
"Soon I'm gonna be a Jedi"

Did you know this junkyard slave
Isn't even old enough to shave
But he can use the Force they say
Ahh, do you see him hitting on the queen
Though he's just nine and she's fourteen
Yeah, he's probably gonna marry her someday
Well, I know he built C-3PO
And I've heard how fast his pod can go
And we were broke, it's true
So we made a wager or two
He was a prepubescent flyin' ace
And the minute Jabba started off that race
Well, I know who would win first place
Oh yes, it was our boy

We started singin'... My my, this here Anakin guy
May be Vader someday later - now he's just a small fry
And he left his home and kissed his mommy goodbye
Sayin' "Soon I'm gonna be a Jedi"
"Soon I'm gonna be a Jedi"

Now we finally got to Coruscant
The Jedi Council we knew would want
To see how good the boy could be
So we took him there and we told the tale
How his midi-chlorians were off the scale
And he might fulfill that prophecy
Oh, the Council was impressed, of course
Could he bring balance to the Force?
They interviewed the kid
Oh, training they forbid
Because Yoda sensed in him much fear
And Qui-Gon said, "Now listen here
Just stick it in your pointy ear
I still will teach this boy"

He was singin'... My my, this here Anakin guy
May be Vader someday later - now he's just a small fry
And he left his home and kissed his mommy goodbye
Sayin' "Soon I'm gonna be a Jedi"
"Soon I'm gonna be a Jedi"

We caught a ride back to Naboo
'Cause Queen Amidala wanted to
I frankly would've liked to stay
We all fought in that epic war
And it wasn't long at all before
Little Hotshot flew his plane and saved the day
And in the end some Gungans died
Some ships blew up and some pilots fried
A lot of folks were croakin'
The battle droids were broken
And the Jedi I admire most
Met up with Darth Maul and now he's toast
Well, I'm still here and he's a ghost
I guess I'll train this boy

And I was singin'... My my, this here Anakin guy
May be Vader someday later - now he's just a small fry
And he left his home and kissed his mommy goodbye
Sayin' "Soon I'm gonna be a Jedi"
"Soon I'm gonna be a Jedi"
We were singin'... My my, this here Anakin guy
May be Vader someday later - now he's just a small fry
And he left his home and kissed his mommy goodbye
Sayin' "Soon I'm gonna be a Jedi"
 
Originally posted by keith
the clones are the storm troopers in the later episodes... thus boba fett is a storm trooper, but he seems to last so much longer than any of the bumbling storm troopers.
i believe that jango fett asked for a genetically unaltered clone (boba) for himself in return for helping create the clone army...
 
Star wars, Hoth, has been turned into a teen flick... NO THANKS. You may think it is good, but I certainly don't. The sales of tickets of it were good the first day, and suddenly plummeted internationally. Euros and Asians hate it.
 
There's no movie in the world as good as a well-written and well-produced radio drama. Movies, as a form of media, are for zombies who either won't or can't think... there's no interaction whatsoever in a movie, the audience just sits there and shuts their brains off.
That's called a popcorn movie, which Star Wars is. It's a movie designed not to require a brain to watch and make lots of money off people who fill those requirements.

(The original three, that is. These last two are quite different but work toward the same ends by milking off the success of the first. If there had been no existing Star Wars trilogy and no established fan base, it's doubtful TPM would ever had been made and certain AotC wouldn't.)

Cine can be an art form, however, though art movies that make it to a general release are few and far between because they're simply not profitable. Most people don't like closely following a story, analyzing it for its messages, and following visual cues and tempi to figure out the structure and ultimately attempt to discern what it was about. People don't have that kind of patience, they'd rather turn their brains off and enjoy the ride of a simpler movie. That's not to say that's bad, movies can be fun to watch. I like the Indiana Jones trilogy, for example, but I'll be the first to say there's no depth there.

To say radio show and a motion picture an incomparable is true, in a sense. They're two starkly different kinds of artform. It's like watching a play made into a movie, it just doesn't work out unless major changes were made in the adaptation (Welles managed with some success, but the point still stands). To say it figuratively, it looses something in the translation. Cine is about the visual, that's why in my opinion the best directors are the ones that learned from the silent film era. To just stick in expository dialogue or narration is too easy a way to get around an obstacle in a film. It conveys the story but not the feeling. Likewise, liberal use of musical cues is a quick way of getting an emotional response from the audience, but they're reacting only to the sound, not to what they're seeing go on in the story. It's true cinema when you take away the dialogue and the music and all the others sounds and the movie still stands on its own using nothing but skillfully crafted and manipulated visuals.

Radio goes entirely in the other way, and it can be no less a work of art, so yes, they are incomparable, but to say one is better than the other is simply false. A fish is not superior to a bird because it can swim and a bird is not superior to a fish because it can fly.
A mediocre piece of entertainment is one that shows you something interesting. A great one is one that prompts you to create something interesting for yourself. (Which of course is hard for movies, easier for radio drama.) A real artist is one who sends the listener/viewer on their own journey, not one who drags the listener/viewer somewhere. The best painting isn't the most realistic one, the best painting is the one that inspires the best internal picture. If you don't realize this, and you prefer your realism junk in which everything is constructed on the screen and you just sit there as a passive audience without needing any brain activity at all, well, all I can say is that you're missing out.
All I can say is you've missed the boat on what a real movie is and have gotten such a bad impression from what Hollywood churns out year after year that you've abandoned the medium and refuse to acknowledge its significance.

A real movie is enlightening, and more than just simply forcing you to imagine a scene in your mind. A movie's intent is to show you, as objectively as possible, a particular element about humanity, allowing you to reflect on it, come to a conclusion about what it means to you, and see yourself by it in a new light. This is not done outright, an announcer doesn't pop on the screen and say "jealousy is filling your life with self-doubt, you must accept others before you can accept yourself" and if one does, well, that's a very poor tactic. The surface story can be mundane and anticlimactic or sweeping and dramatic, it doesn't really matter. Where the true story peeks through the surface plot is where the art comes in. It's not hard to write a surface plot, nor is it really that hard to express your message, what is difficult is to write a story that works and perfectly conveys your message without ever saying it or addressing it in the plot. The movie can be watched without thought and its upper level understood by anyone. Through careful watching and analysis, the message can be found as well. Once you figure out the message and re-watch the movie, you should see that it not only applies to a certain segment or character, but to the whole movie, and everyone in it, and to yourself. That's the brilliance of a skillfully produced and flawlessly played-out film.

To abandon the surface story for the sake of the underlying message leaves a movie that's not enough, it's not strong enough. You can't simply out and out say what you want to say, it won't reach people in the same way it would if you let them discover it in themsleves. A movie should speak to your mind, not your ears. The ideas brought on by a movie will be with you long before you discover the way to put it into words.

Star Wars does none of this. It's a popcorn movie, it's not art. That's not to say it can't be enjoyed for what its worth. Like my example of Indiana Jones above, it can be enjoyed purely on a entertainment level. If you like the Star Wars sort of movie, have at it, but I don't, for reasons I've already said.

Bringing in the opinion of authors to a discussion of radio and cinema, already an apples and oranges situation, is throwing in a banana. I'll skip the rest of what you said because, truly and in short, it's pointless. I'll say it as politely as possible without glossing it over, you have a very narrow view and I don't think you'll let yourself see outside of it.

You missed the underlying theme of 2001, by the way. It's not as simple as that, you haven't broken through the surface. I don't pretend to fully understand it, but I've spent a fair amount of time studying it and come to many points. Read Also Sprach Zarathustra: Ein Buch für Alle und Keinen, the book/poem Richard Straß wrote the song used as the theme for the movie as well as in a few points during the story to. It will give clarity to many of the more abstract events. Keep track of repeating images and keep a tally of how many times they repeat. Facial expression and subtle actions are also very important. Take note of who is where when something happens and who isn't. Find patterns of events that occur in threes, then try to figure out the significance of the number, the poem will help in this but don't base everything on it. Zarathustra may need further readings depending on how familiar you are with Nietzsche (not just his philosophy, but his writing style and life in general).

What I don't advise is reading others' analysis, interpretations very too widely and you should find your own. I also don't advise trying to link the book to the movie, neither was based on the other and they should be treated as separate works.
 
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