gisol.com: down... down... down....

[MPS]

I've signed up for a start-up package on gisol.com the last week. Two days ago they suspended my site without any notice, yesterday they've closed my ticket saying that my site is acceptable (I'm a software developer...) and then they've reactivated it.
NOW THE SITE IS AGAIN DOWN: 36 HOURS of downtime is UNACCEPTABLE. I'm losing orders, what type of service is this?!?!?!? Every day they will suspend my site for investigating why it use 2 gigs of bandwidth at day? The contract say that there is a 65 GIGS x month... so what's the problem?!

http://www.mypersonalsoftware.com

 

[the elf]

Originally posted by MPS
so what's the problem?!

I think the problem is that you really "think" your going to get 65 GB/month for only $9.95/month. They use RackSpace.com for their main page, yet put customers on RackShack servers.

Even if RackShack, 400 / 65 = 6.2 now $99/month / 6 = $16.50, yet you only paid $9.95 which means they would lose $6.55 (or more). Your site does as you said 2 GB /day (or 60 GB/month) and they are not willing to provide the oversold bandwidth they sold you. This is a good example of how overselling will backfire and the customer (you) get the short end of the stick when you buy "virtual" bandwidth.

I don't think they would have to investigate all that much, visit the site, read the logs, check the directory and find out "wow, it really is a download (of your own software, I guess ) and take the loss.

UNACCEPTABLE. I'm losing orders

I don't think it's unacceptable at all. If your getting orders, you should invest in a company that does not use RackShack servers (or any kind of "discount" server) or that oversells like they do. By saving $1 you lost $10 (as an example, from lost orders).

 

[allanh]

it is unacceptable. Just because they have cheap prices, it does not warrant LYING.

If it is a not a sustainable price for the host to stay alive, then it is the HOST'S responsiblity to adjust price themselves.

 

[MPS]

Hi The Elf,
sorry but this is not true, they are selling a service with some features, so if they cannot mantain that, they MUST adjust the offer...
We have accepted their contract, now they must respect it or refund us.
This is not a joke.. this is business...

 

[the elf]

Originally posted by allanh
it is unacceptable. Just because they have cheap prices, it does not warrant LYING.

If it is a not a sustainable price for the host to stay alive, then it is the HOST'S responsiblity to adjust price themselves.

No it's not. When everyone else is paying $1-$2/GB they get what they pay for, yet the OP pays $0.15/GB then comes here and whines saying I got scammed and they suck. Let's face it, he/she got sucked into an oversold web host that can't/won't offer what they provided. Simple as that. To me, I'd blame the customer. Why? Because he stuck his/her own hand in the fire and got burnt or "I bought a pop for $0.10 and it has a funny taste".

It's the CUSTOMERS responsiblity to figure out if the offer is valid and true. Just because somebody offers it, does not mean it's true. There are tons of hosts (and people) that just wait for people to signup (i.e. hosts that oversell etc.). Now, you can't pass all the blame onto the host, because, the last time someone called me (as an example) saying "you won a sports car, all we need is your credit card numbers" I tell them "super, you've won a... click" because I know better.

Hi The Elf,
sorry but this is not true, they are selling a service with some features, so if they cannot mantain that, they MUST adjust the offer...
We have accepted their contract, now they must respect it or refund us.
This is not a joke.. this is business...

They are selling an oversold service, they can offer what they sold you, but at a loss and as you've found out, they are not willing to. They don't have to adjust anything, because I bet 98% of the people that signed up, only use 1-5 GB/month. Unless you signed a contract, you're kinda outta luck. I'm sure if you read the ToS/AUP of that host, you'll see an area where they can disconnect you (with/without refund) for resource abuse (or something along the lines).

 

[Ashed]

Originally posted by allanh
it is unacceptable. Just because they have cheap prices, it does not warrant LYING.

Hey, I think I heard that before...

 

[allanh]

Originally posted by the elf


When everyone else is paying $1-$2/GB they get what they pay for, yet the OP pays $0.15/GB then comes here and whines saying I got scammed and they suck. Let's face it, he/she got sucked into an oversold web host that can't/won't offer what they provided. Simple as that. To me, I'd blame the customer. Why? Because he stuck his/her own hand in the fire and got burnt or "I bought a pop for $0.10 and it has a funny taste".

It's the CUSTOMERS responsiblity to figure out if the offer is valid and true. Just because somebody offers it, does not mean it's true. There are tons of hosts (and people) that just wait for people to signup (i.e. hosts that oversell etc.). Now, you can't pass all the blame onto the host, because, the last time someone called me (as an example) saying "you won a sports car, all we need is your credit card numbers" I tell them "super, you've won a... click" because I know better.

yeah, yeah yeah. According to "The Elf", consumers have no right what-so-ever, it is always the consumer's faults and hosts have no responsibility to honour their own contracts. It is probably the view that would benefit hosts the most. I would like to see your face when someone runs into your house and rob you and when you report to the police, they tell that it is YOUR own problem that you don't have a state-of-the-art security for your home.

And another is example is: according to you, if you get food poisoned in a MacDonalds, it is also the consumer's own fault since Mackers are selling cheap burgers?

 

[the elf]

Originally posted by allanh



yeah, yeah yeah. According to "The Elf", consumers have no right what-so-ever, it is always the consumer's faults and hosts have no responsibility to honour their own contracts. It is probably the view that would benefit hosts the most. I would like to see your face when someone runs into your house and rob you and when you report to the police, they tell that it is YOUR own problem that you don't have a state-of-the-art security for your home.

And another is example is: according to you, if you get food poisoned in a MacDonalds, it is also the consumer's own fault since Mackers are selling cheap burgers?

I said "you can't pass all the blame onto the host". The customer should review and question before they buy and apply the old saying "if it's too good to be true, it is". Seems kinda funny how almost every other host has 50 GB plans for $25+/month, yet the OP found this one and signed up. I guess it never really clicked until he got "cut".

As for the food, if the customer got poisoned in a MacDonalds from a $0.49 burger, they paid for what they got, in this case, they got poisoned. Sure you can blame MacDonalds, but it's the customers own fault for trying to save $2 and I bet, after the customer is poisoned, he/she won't be buying anymore cheap burgers.

As for the "robber", if I failed to lock my door, then yeah. But buying a lock for $5 and thinking "wow, I saved $40" and find out the lock company only made 2 keys for all the locks hoping people would not "try" to use them in other doors and have someone break in (with a copy) and steal $1,000+ in items is also my fault because I tried to save $40 and lost $1,000+. I should have got the $45 lock.

We can sit here and post all day long, but it comes down to this. You get what you pay for, and if you don't pay for it, you won't get it.

 

[thelostone]

Very impressive! The host shouldnt lie, but customers also have to think. If a host cant cover their cost with their price, there is no way to sign up...i use RS servers, offer bargain hosting and some free accounts as well, no profit but at least make sure to meet the cost.
If you are running a business site, do go for those solid and famed hosts, dont host a production site on a personal host, NEVER!

 

[neftha]

It's an interesting discussion, who to blame: the host or the client. I feel the host is responsible in principle. They promise to deliver a service for a certain price. If they fail to do so, the client should be able to receive a full refund and, if applying, a certain amount for lost revenue. Let's face it, WE all know it's too good to be true but there are a lot of people out there who are NOT. Experienced webmasters know what is reasonable and what is not. However, those who are not, should be protected by laws. It does not apply to hosting only, it should apply to all kinds of services and products. It's more than fair to keep a company to its word or contract. Maybe this can also put a hold on all those scams in the webhosting business.

 

[Jan]

Originally posted by thelostone
Very impressive! The host shouldnt lie, but customers also have to think. If a host cant cover their cost with their price, there is no way to sign up...

See neftha's post! How many customers know what a host pays for their bits and pieces? They decide on paid hosting the majority of the time, because they are sick of moving from one free host to another, therefore they try to find a cheap alternative. What would they know (the majority!) how much it costs to run?

If people don't hang out on forums such as these they have no way of knowing which host was for real, so therefore those offering paid hosting should stick to what they promise, or don't make promises they can't keep.

I was lucky in my first choice with a paid host and had no problems, but people like the thread starter here and numerous others have been bitten by false promises. it ISN'T right that they should get away with it because "you get what you pay for", What these people paid is very likely a huge amount to them especially when they are accustomed to free. </rant>

 

[thelostone]

Ok, have to agree with you Jan but he is obviously using it for a production site, and if his softwares are that popular and generate 2G of transfer per day, he should not choose a cheap host as a substitute for free hosting, nothing offensive, just a common sense, something cheap there must be a reason, less support, less features, less reliable, less profit...positive or negative.
Anyways, just notice that they offer 30 day money back and 90 day free so not a big deal.

 

[Webdude]

A legit host can oversell only so much. Many hosts are started every day and one of the things that puts them out of business fairly soon is simply because they dont do their math. Overselling makes it extremely hard to calculate months in advance what your bottom revenue will be. We dont oversell, so we can calculate what our revenue will be 6 months from now and it be fairly accurate based off monthly revenue now and growth rate. We don't operate at a loss except minor ones when we run promotions.

It also means that we can fairly run special promotions because we know where we can afford to take losses. When you oversell, in my opinion you are only putting yourself at a disadvantage as well as possibly lying to your clients (albeit maybe unintentional). If you cant offer everything you offer all at the same time to all your clients either on a resource or financial level, you shouldnt be doing it. By not overselling, if all our clients used all the bandwidth and all the space available to them, we could handle it easily because we have priced our plans so that all costs given in those plans are covered.

Maybe what people should be doing is determining if a potential host is overselling. If they look good, but are overselling, take a note and keep looking. Not all hosts that oversell are bad. Some are willing to take the loss if you use all resources given to you and they will honor their agreement....most wont. When looking at hosts, use common sense people. Find a host that offers 65 gigs for $10/month and you know if you use even a 3rd of that that your going to have problems. Find a host that offers 20 gigs for $10/month then you know they are overselling also, but it's more likely they will take the loss if you use it all. Those hosts who try to undercut all the other hosts by making themselves look like they can offer so much more are the ones you will get ripped at.

So is a client wrong for going with such a host? No, just naive enough to believe it. Is the host wrong for offering something they cant or wont cover? Yes, because they are decieving their visitors in order to get more clients.

 

[the elf]

Originally posted by Jan

See neftha's post! How many customers know what a host pays for their bits and pieces? They decide on paid hosting the majority of the time, because they are sick of moving from one free host to another, therefore they try to find a cheap alternative. What would they know (the majority!) how much it costs to run?

By shopping around.

Host 1 has a 50 MB 10 GB plan for $9.99, host 2 for $14.99 and host 3 for $12.99 and host 4 for $1.99. You can see, the normal cost for a 50 MB 10 GB play is around $10-15 and if you go for the $1.99 plan, something is wrong. I hope people don't apply the same (going for the $1.99 deal) when they buy a house or a car, because you'd use the same common sense when buying hosting as would you when your buying a new car/house. They may cost more, but as you can see, people still come and whine about it when they get ripped.

Originally posted by Webdude
So is a client wrong for going with such a host? No, just naive enough to believe it. Is the host wrong for offering something they cant or wont cover? Yes, because they are decieving their visitors in order to get more clients.

If it was a "personal" site, yeah, I'd blame the host 100%, but.. we're talking about a commercial site, where the OP creates revenue... In this case, I’d blame the customer more then the host.

 

[allanh]

blaming the victims

I guess it is always easier for someone to blame the victims (the clients in this case).

Don't forget, the hosts are BREAKING THE LAWS by stealing the client's money. The client did nothing wrongly legally by signing up with an offer.

Yes, the client can be more cautious and smarter. But in both legal and ethical terms, the host is the one that's SOLELY responsible.

 

[the elf]

Re: blaming the victims

Originally posted by allanh
I guess it is always easier for someone to blame the victims (the clients in this case).

Don't forget, the hosts are BREAKING THE LAWS by stealing the client's money. The client did nothing wrongly legally by signing up with an offer.

Yes, the client can be more cautious and smarter. But in both legal and ethical terms, the host is the one that's SOLELY responsible.

May be so, but if anyone took the matter to court, and for a $10 plan (that would just show me how stupid people are) the host would slap the AUP/ToS into it for I donno, resource abuse and have a better chance of winning. The customer may be able to use 65 GB/month, but not 75% of the servers resources to push the 65 GB/month. Who can really say if the site used 75%, the host. And if you take em to court, they will lie all the way because if they have to lie to get you as a customer, chances are they will lie to win.

I don't really think they are breaking any laws as a good ToS/AUP would solve that matter very fast. Look at rackshacks ToS/AUP. If you get crappy service, and issue a chargeback, they bill you another $50 (if I recall correctly).

Right from the gisol.com ToS..

Provider reserves the right to refuse service to anyone at any time. Provider reserves the right, in its sole discretion, to deactivate your account(s) without further warning upon an indication of credit problems including delinquent payments, or if this service contract is violated, or if Client's account or the traffic on this account causes any kind of network or server problem / disturbances.

Now, they can LEGALLY take your money, and close your account! So much for the law... If I were the host, all I would have to say is "The site caused the server to slow down due to the traffic, so we closed the account for a violation of our ToS".

And this is why I BLAME THE CUSTOMER!!! Unless your willing to spend $1,000's to win, do your homework! The law is kindy funny, and the ToS makes it more fun. Mostly because you enter into an agreement to screw yourself if something goes bad. All they do is "loop" the law so the odds are on THEIR side and that's nothing new!!

Don't forget this one (also from the gisol.com ToS)..

"Global Internet Solutions does not issue refunds for any of its services." Again, they can LEGALLY cancel your account and KEEP the money!! But this term also goes into more detail i.e. if you pre-pay for a year, you MAY get a refund.

 

[Netbridge]

LMAO

I cannot help but LMAO when I see this type of situation. People whine all the time, yet they full well knowing went into something that did not appear right. A man runs up to you at a traffic light offering you a video machine for $50. Will you take it?

Of course you will, if you think you can get away with it. Same with hosting, I offer you 60GB for $7, of cause you will take it if you think you can get away with it. The one is legal the other is illegal but the mindset is the same. What can you get away with.

Forums like this one is full of these type's of complaints. I dont know why many times people post these type of complaints, but I have come to the conclusion that it is theraputic for some.

Do I feel pity - No.

Sometimes I look at what people are requesting and you see where the problem starts. I want 30GB of bandwidth for $5 per month. Even the customer knows that is just plain impossible. Yet it gets asked. I am more amused when people actually offer it, or a bidding war starts.

On another forum you had someone looking for a sponsor of 100GB per month for streaming for a small ad. :biggrin2:

I have always held the belief that resellers will kill this business or bring it into the same type of light as which porn falls. Just look at the request for reseller accounts on any forum. They want 1GB Disk space, 50GB bandwidth and the KILLER unlimited domains. For $20 per month you can squeeze as many people as you can into the space and suck the living daylights out of the machine, which they dont see and which is being shared with others. You will offer 10GB for $5 per month just to help cover that $20 at the end of the month. The owner of the hardware looses money, machines and networks slow down and when he finally closes his doors or cuts corners, the resellers sites go down and so the complete domino effect takes place. Now the industry gets marked as unreliable. We dont want to use Rack*** and that is where you find the end result. Oversold and dead.

The bottomline is that there is no regulation in the industry and it is not being self regulated either. No ethics and in some cases zero business skills. So on it goes.............