• Howdy! Welcome to our community of more than 130.000 members devoted to web hosting. This is a great place to get special offers from web hosts and post your own requests or ads. To start posting sign up here. Cheers! /Peo, FreeWebSpace.net
managed wordpress hosting

Just got baptized

Let’s just end this age old religion debate.. There has been many threads on /fws/ over the last 5-6 years, all of them ending the same way..

There are 2 types of people out there - weak people, that need to think there is something greater than themselves, and strong people, able to accept life as it is.

Both kinds of people are allowed their views, unless they chuck it at others.. I don’t create threads that say "OMFG, burnt down my first church today!!!", and if I did, I would expect to get it chucked right back at me, so you should be the same.

Do not ram your religious beliefs down other peoples throat when you cannot in turn take that ramming back. Yes, you might be proud you’re of a religious nature, but you don’t see us creating religion-hating threads do you?


If you want to avoid the silly religion bashing – don’t post about ----ing religion, it’s simple as!
 
I stopped really reading this as a good reply from this point with good reason:

Who?
I like the way you insinuate I'm wrong without even telling me why you object to what I wrote. I didn't say most historians agree with all the history in the Bible; I said they know it's difficult to fault the Bible on its history.

Historians have vastly differing views on all aspects of history, you can find many serious historians with equal credentials all looking at the same information on the same period of history in the same place and they can come up with any number of differing views. Just look at "Jack the Ripper" and you'll see that not even historians can agree on how many Ripper murders there were; and they're divided about who they think the Ripper really was (but that itself is only speculation).

Historians used to tell us, for instance, that the Exodus out of Egypt could not have happened as it was described in the Bible and would have occurred later than the Biblical chronology; this view was based on circumstantial events by the way. Then a discovering in the 1800's (that of the Merneptah Stele, that is) proved (well at least added pretty convincing evidence) that the Israelis were in Canaan at the time of Merneptah, thus supporting the Biblical timeline.

That's not an isolated thing, every single significant historical discovery relating to events in the Bible supports Biblical history. That's why any time I ask an Atheist "prove to me the history is wrong" all they can come up with is a list of what they think are internal contradictions or that locusts have 6 legs (regarding a mistake in the interpretation of the Hebrew) or that snakes don't eat dust (which again, has nothing whatsoever to do with history).

So again, prove it to me. Pick something out. The exodus out of Egypt. The death and resurrection of Christ. The Birth of Christ during a CENSUS of all things in 5-4BC???

Or simply prove that all the NT books were written in the mid-late-SECOND or early THIRD centuries; a popular belief among Atheists; I'd like to see you explain why halfway through Acts, the author - Luke - starts writing as being an eyewitness; if it wasn't written until the mid-late Second century by someone who wasn't an eyewitness...
Let’s just end this age old religion debate.. There has been many threads on /fws/ over the last 5-6 years, all of them ending the same way..
No, you can't have your cake and eat it too. I mean, here you are with the one hand saying "let's end this debate" and at the same time you say this as being fact:
There are 2 types of people out there - weak people, that need to think there is something greater than themselves, and strong people, able to accept life as it is.
And besides which, you failed to prove your views are rational. At least I can support mine with EVIDENCE, which is more than I can say for you.
Do not ram your religious beliefs down other peoples throat when you cannot in turn take that ramming back. Yes, you might be proud you’re of a religious nature, but you don’t see us creating religion-hating threads do you?
I have repeatedly said I'm happy to discuss/debate any aspect of the Bible, yet you come back and insinuate that we (Christians) "can't take it"? Nah mate, you're wrong on that one, I'm not afraid of a debate. I can back up my beliefs, I'm yet to see if you can do the same with yours. Because the most you've done so far is the same thing that the Sadducees attempted in Luke 20 "Your argument fails because of this logic: (insert seemingly logical argument). QED".
If you want to avoid the silly religion bashing – don’t post about ----ing religion, it’s simple as!
Why don't you start your own thread with your own argument and then we can debate? Is that so difficult? Where is your argument Richard? I've put my cards on the table, everyone can see them... where are yours?

BTW: At least I show RESPECT in my replies Richard. If you have a dictionary you may want to learn what that word means.
 
Last edited:
You're wrong because you're basing your evidence off a book you believe is true, if I wrote a book and believed it's true, quoted my own evidence from it, doesn't make it true. You seem to think I'm an atheist, I'm not. I just don't believe the bibles of any religion are true. Again you say historians, what historians?

You're trying to prove you are right because we don't agree with you, I don't need to prove I'm right, I don't care, it's not my faith.
 
You're wrong because you're basing your evidence off a book you believe is true, if I wrote a book and believed it's true, quoted my own evidence from it, doesn't make it true.
Firstly, the Bible is 66 Books, and the last book of the Bible - Revelation - is about future events.

If you have a diary, and write in your diary and I read what you wrote in your diary, why should I believe that what it contains is false?

Or, put it this way, Luke writes his Gospel, addresses it to Theophilus, and says he is writing it so that Theophilus can have certainty regarding the matters in it. What does that tell you his intention was when he wrote the book? Did he indeed intend to write about truth or about fiction?

Now he's the problem with your argument: "quoted my own evidence from it". There are a multitude of things that are independently corroborated, including places, names, officials, etc; and that evidence tells me that the HISTORY of the text is therefore correct.

Now if you read what I wrote earlier you understand that historians are often the most sceptical creatures in the universe, disbelieving anything they don't have hard evidence for; so even in their critical, sceptical views, all they can say is "this isn't corroborated, there's no physical evidence here, etc"; unlike the Qur'an where historians have actually said "well this is wrong, because the town wasn't in that location" and other such evidence which proves its history is wrong.
I just don't believe the bibles of any religion are true.
And on what basis have you come to that conclusion? Let me tell you something; in the Muslim faith the entire Christian canon - Old Testament and New - is considered divinely inspired scripture along with the Qur'an.

So why is there an Islamic website that attacks both OT and NT scripture see link? FYI there are other Islamic websites out there that rigorously condemn that site for just that reason. It would be as absurd as a Christian website attacking the Tanakh, which we believe is inspired.

On what basis do you have to come in and say I'm wrong and that the Bible is untrue and then claim that because I'm the one who disagrees with YOU the burden of proof is on me?

Nah. It doesn't work like that. I don't go to you and say "show me physical proof that six million European Jews were killed in the Holocaust or I refuse to believe that's a true account". If we don't have the physical proof of an event that happened a mere 65 years ago, how do you expect to get the same level of evidence for events that happened 2,000 years ago?

There are a number of points that are definitively proven which then in turn prove that other things are also true. Now Luke-Acts is a two-volume unit from the same author to the same person (Theophilus); Luke writes as an historian until midway through Acts and then writes eyewitness accounts. The last event to occur in Acts happened in 62AD. Even if Luke wrote Acts on his deathbed in 84AD it was written within living memory of Christ; John didn't die until some 15-16 years later. Of course Luke didn't write Acts on his deathbed, his greeting clearly displays the fact that he is actively working in ministry. He would definitely have mentioned the death of Paul if it had been after that event, since Paul clearly tells us that Luke was with him in one of his final letters. Paul died c 67AD.

Now, again I will present you this evidence, and you can show me exactly how this is incorrect as you claim...

Jesus' prophecy of the fall of Jerusalem is recorded in Luke 21:20-24. Since the Gospel was written before AD70 when the event occurred it proves the prophecy was true. Now everyone who claims that the Bible is false looks at this passage and says "well that was written after AD70 and Jesus didn't really say that". There are over 6,000 copies of the Greek New Testament text. If it had been "added later" like say Mark 16:9-20 then there should be copies missing the prophecy, but there are not. So your assignment is simple. Prove to me that Luke 21:20-24 is a false prophecy.
 
Last edited:
Let’s just end this age old religion debate.. There has been many threads on /fws/ over the last 5-6 years, all of them ending the same way..

There are 2 types of people out there - weak people, that need to think there is something greater than themselves, and strong people, able to accept life as it is.

Both kinds of people are allowed their views, unless they chuck it at others.. I don’t create threads that say "OMFG, burnt down my first church today!!!", and if I did, I would expect to get it chucked right back at me, so you should be the same.

Do not ram your religious beliefs down other peoples throat when you cannot in turn take that ramming back. Yes, you might be proud you’re of a religious nature, but you don’t see us creating religion-hating threads do you?


If you want to avoid the silly religion bashing – don’t post about ----ing religion, it’s simple as!

Lets end it he says, then of course adds to it.
Unstable :lol:


This forum is pretty free, its not my fault your offended by my views in my own thread.
Cry all you want, it does not bother me at all :)

Both kinds of people are allowed their views, unless they chuck it at others.. I don’t create threads that say "OMFG, burnt down my first church today!!!", and if I did, I would expect to get it chucked right back at me, so you should be the same.
No, you come in to threads trying to dictate who can post what instead,take your head outa that --- man, it must smell pretty bad up thar
 
Last edited:
I wish religion would die.

Your life has no purpose. It has no meaning. All of your accomplishments will be forgotten.
You might as well have never existed. After death, you will decompose and return the elements
that make up your body to the planet you took so much from and gave so little to.
 
Last edited:
I wish religion would die.

Your life has no purpose. It has no meaning. All of your accomplishments will be forgotten.
You might as well have never existed. After death, you will decompose and return the elements
that make up your body to the planet you took so much from and gave so little to.

And the sooner you accept this the sooner you can start living.
 
Again Meklison, its like talking to a brick wall. Why are you trying to prove you are right so badly? Do you need to question your faith? For the record I'm not saying you're right.
 
Where is your argument Richard? I've put my cards on the table, everyone can see them... where are yours?

I think you just proved my whole point for me :D I don't need to, however, you think you do.

I'm sorry - but you can't get much clearer than that - If you still don't get my point, maybe it's you that should start reading some books - and no, I don't mean fiction (like the bible), I mean books of fact like Evolution, genetics, physics, etc.

PS: Looking at your avatar - I can see why your so into religion, it must be the only place a guy like you can find a girl just as gullible to go out with!
 
Last edited:
Im kinda a perfectionist.
Evolution is both theory & fact.

Maybe you should read some evolution books yourself!
 
To me science always flaws its self.
Science is based off the creation of the earth, time and the universe around the earth.
It can never explain how we come to be, because it limits its self to time and stupid little things like: to exist you must be a thing.
Science is a dead end, only good for creating medical help and so on!
 
Im kinda a perfectionist.
Evolution is both theory & fact.

Maybe you should read some evolution books yourself!
I'm glad you pointed this out, I was going to do it myself, but I decided I'd reply later.
it's you that should start reading some books - and no, I don't mean fiction (like the bible), I mean books of fact like Evolution, genetics, physics, etc.
Richard, I regularly independently study physics and other sciences; and physics is NEVER about facts; it's a THEORETICAL science, nothing more. I can prove that QM is an incomplete theory. Hubble's Law is violated by Quasars; the shift over the last few years in the academic view on this means this is now well acknowledged... if something violates a LAW of physics then according to you it violates FACT?

Recently Stephen Hawking shifted his view from "Hawking's God created the universe" (the view that he's previously claimed) to "the big bang was a self-creating event" (the view that he now holds). Let me just tell you something you might find interesting. Hawking has believed for a long time that the universe has no boundaries; this is not a majority view at all; he believes that time had no beginning, only matter. Therefore he himself does not adhere to the Big-Bang theory, his is different in that the Hawking Big Bang created only matter and space, not time.

But let's put this into perspective. The universe is expanding, and about this there is little doubt. Einstein once attempted to rework GR to work with a "static universe" and later cited that as his biggest mistake. If the universe is expanding then it had to have had a beginning; and physicists generally believe this to be some 14 billion years ago. The laws of physics are so finly tuned to accommodate life, that it is inconceivable that it could have happened by chance. Physics itself attests to divine design. You don't say "stars, like our sun, burn at exactly the correct rate for life by chance"; that is ridiculous. Similarly life is dependant on carbon-based chemical reactions; if you took carbon out of the realm of physics there would no possibility of life. If you took out any number of the things carbon can do; which are reliant on the underlying physics that govern them; there is no possibility of life.

The universe could not sustain life when it was created, nor could it do it for the first 13 billion years of its existence. Only once it has expanded to the size that it has, and cooled to the temperature it has is it possible for life not only to exist, but to survive. However, any physicist will tell you, that for life to randomly assemble itself you have to allow an eternity for it to get started.

If the universe exists by "chance" it has no purpose. The very fact that life exists within it tells me that its purpose is life. Life could not exist without it. Everything that has a purpose is designed. You don't get into your car and expect to drive on roads that exist by "chance".

Okay, according to the theory of the Big Bang, when the universe had reached the age of 10^-43 seconds (one unit of Planck time) it was 10^-32 cubic mm big. There's just one problem with this theory: relativity. We KNOW that time is relative. This is certain. Once the universe has begun to exist you can't trace everything to a single moment; their time is now relative to each other. Yet the theory tells us that: space and time were DISTINCT at this moment, AND at the moment before it! Something that QM is incompatible with!

In closing I'll say this. The Bible is not fiction, every single bit of hard physical evidence corroborates the Biblical accounts. The discovery of the Dead Sea Scrolls proved that Christians didn't tamper with Isaiah, AND proved that the OT scriptures were not altered over time. I have yet to see you show me an historical inaccuracy in the Bible. Show me that and you have proven it's fiction. If you can't show me that and I can corroborate many of the things in it; wouldn't that prove it's FACT?
 
Science as a whole is based off theory, but it's based on theory from evidence and observations. For something we can't understand or currently find the answer to, we theorize then execute experiments to find out if what we theorized is true or false, if true, good. If false, we go back to the drawing board and try a new theory.

If the universe exists by "chance" it has no purpose.

If this is your reasoning for believing in a god, then you're deluded. Life doesn't have to have a meaning. We just exist, simple as.
 
Back
Top