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Overselling, and why i'm sick of it.

James

Always moving..
NLC
hottweelz said:
my new servers have over 400gb of storage space on 10mbps unmetered lines.
I personally wouldn't place 400GB worth of accounts on a 10mbps line, whether it's unmetered (Only around 3000GB bandwidth) or not.

The speeds you actually get on 10mbps is around 1.2 MegaByte/s. This, for the whole server? Peak times will have your servers crawling at snail speed. Push more traffic than that line can handle, you will get packet loss and overall slowness for everyone on that server. Essentially using a 10mbps line is a cheaper way for a host to get more accounts on a server.

Miles better performance on a 1000GB/2000GB BW server with a 100mbps port.
 

hottweelz

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James said:
I personally wouldn't place 400GB worth of accounts on a 10mbps line, whether it's unmetered (Only around 3000GB bandwidth) or not.

The speeds you actually get on 10mbps is around 1.2 MegaByte/s. This, for the whole server? Peak times will have your servers crawling at snail speed. Push more traffic than that line can handle, you will get packet loss and overall slowness for everyone on that server. Essentially using a 10mbps line is a cheaper way for a host to get more accounts on a server.

Miles better performance on a 1000GB/2000GB BW server with a 100mbps port.
Thanks, if I break 40% capacity on one box, I'll go 100/4tb. Or similar.
 

WMSpecialties

New Member
Actually all hosting companies over-subscribe. That is how they make money. If you actually saw the price of not over-selling you probably would think that there is something wrong. The only companies that do not oversell are rackspace and ourselves. To my knowledge rackspace offers a nice server for about $900/month:
Intel Xeon 3.2 Ghz
1 GB DDR-2 RAM
2x73 GB SCSI Hard drive
SCSI RAID controller
Redundant Power Supply
Redundant Cooling Systems
150 GB Bandwidth monthly
10 GB Managed Backup weekly
Notice a dedicated server that only has 150GB of bandwidth. There are a few more companies, but most of the industry depends on over-subscribing.
 
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hottweelz

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WMSpecialties said:
The only companies that do not oversell are rackspace and ourselves.

~

Notice a dedicated server that only has 150GB of bandwidth. There are a few more companies, but most of the industry depends on over-subscribing.
What crack do you smoke?
 

MMarko

New Member
Bruce said:
If you're worried about losing possible customers to the "1000GB/1000000GB for $2" company, perhaps you're after the wrong people. The people who expect everything for practically nothing are the people who always bother support as well. Maybe you shouldn't be going after those people.

In all honesty, if price is the only thing you have to lure customers, you may want to re-think your business.
I couldn't agree more! :)
 

utcrazy

Wo ist mein handy
NLC
Take apt-hosting.net for example. They oversold, clearly not kids, but they had to close down because of it. Oversellers will get theirs eventually.
 

MMarko

New Member
WMSpecialties said:
Actually all hosting companies over-subscribe. That is how they make money. If you actually saw the price of not over-selling you probably would think that there is something wrong. The only companies that do not oversell are rackspace and ourselves. To my knowledge rackspace offers a nice server for about $900/month:
Intel Xeon 3.2 Ghz
1 GB DDR-2 RAM
2x73 GB SCSI Hard drive
SCSI RAID controller
Redundant Power Supply
Redundant Cooling Systems
150 GB Bandwidth monthly
10 GB Managed Backup weekly
Notice a dedicated server that only has 150GB of bandwidth. There are a few more companies, but most of the industry depends on over-subscribing.

Servers like this one are meant to be dedicated heavy loaded application / DB servers. They're not for "simple" hosting services.
 

WMSpecialties

New Member
I agree, but the bandwidth on the offer, does not amount to any offers in this forum. Another example is The Planet, 1200GB for this same server is about half the price as Rackspace.
Hottweelz, I lost you. The industry depends on over-subscribing. I do not see what you are talking about?
 
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MMarko

New Member
WMSpecialties said:
I agree, but the bandwidth on the offer, does not amount to any offers in this forum.
These dedicated boxes are meant for bussiness computing not for hosting.
 

WMSpecialties

New Member
Exactly my point. The only point I was trying to bring across is the hosting industry oversells. The Planet vs. Rackspace. The Planet over-subscribes and Raskspace does not. Do not get me wrong over-subscribing is ok and it works.
 

hottweelz

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WMSpecialties said:
Hottweelz, I lost you. The industry depends on over-subscribing. I do not see what you are talking about?
I lost you?
Sorry.
A) Only you and Rackspace "don't" oversell?
B) A dedicated server really only puts out 150gb bandwidth per 30 days?
 

WMSpecialties

New Member
No, I said those are the companies that I know of. I said that there are others. I do not know them though. Could you list others? And yes I agree with you on part B) of your post. Back to my point, most of the hosting world over-subscribes. Explain how you see it, because I could be wrong and will retract anything if you can prove it to me otherwise.
 

hottweelz

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WMSpecialties said:
No, I said those are the companies that I know of. I said that there are others. I do not know them though. Could you list others? And yes I agree with you on part B) of your post. Back to my point, most of the hosting world over-subscribes. Explain how you see it, because I could be wrong and will retract anything if you can prove it to me otherwise.
I agree that A LOT oversell... but I guess I misunderstood the under exaggeration of a server only really using 150gb per month.
 

James

Always moving..
NLC
Oversell, oversubscribe or not, The Planet is gigantic in size and success and has an extremely high percentage of satisfied customers. Rackspace is beyond reality in terms of pricing and personally, I would never buy from them.

WMSpecialties said:
Well, that is one downside to forums and email, Tone can not be expressed. I am sorry if it did not sound right.
The problem with your post was that you were appearing real cocky with the statement "Rackspace and WMSpecialities are the non-overselling hosts of the world". :)

But yes I do believe you are right in that over-subscription is the norm.
 

WMSpecialties

New Member
The other problem was that people did not read what I wrote. Just as I said before, Those are the companies I "know of". See some people might of read it as "Rackspace and WMSpecialities are the only non-overselling hosts of the world", but that was not what was written. Also in my other post, I said there was nothing wrong with overselling. I have nothing over The Planet and they have made overselling work for them. Heck, the whole industry is doing well and they have happy customers, most of them. Although the idea of "really" getting 2000GB/month has no value and it is pretty much the same amount of bandwidth rackspace is offering. I was trying to make a point that Rackspace is not beyond reality. It is like the Planet's Platium service added onto a server they sell with 2,000GB of bandwidth. It is pretty much the same server. The only difference is marketing and overselling is just a marketing scheme.
Also I think another problem was that most hosts on this forum sell their hosting. So when I posted this, they did not read it fully, thought that I was trying to cut them short by selling something that most hosts do not have and then they attacked me for really no reason. I was trying to add to the conversation, not sell anything. A forum is meant for discussion, so I thought I keep the discussion going. Again, I am not undermining anyone, just adding that today some hosts are overselling, some hosts are selling what the customer gets, but it comes down to that the hosting industry is a Monopolistic Competition market and that everyone gets the same bandwidth and pretty close to the same prices. So the 150GB from Rackspace is no different from The Planet’s 2000GB. Before I worked at WebMedia Specialties, I got scammed(overselling), by a company. I did not know it though. When my boss told me we were selling 10GB of data transfer a month for $40/month, I looked a him a little awkwardly. My first impression was this company "sucks". It took me a little while to understand and my boss gave me a better explanation, than I am giving now. I would like to iterate this again, I am not trying to say that overselling is BAD and all the hosts that do it are bad. Please understand, I was just trying to make a point that I see in the industry today, call it a well educated opinion if you will.
 

hottweelz

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This is the part I don't undestand still.
Why is the 2000gb per month of bandwidth so unrealistic to you.

I have over 650 customers spread across four servers. One customer, utilizes 2500gb per month alone.

They are real numbers... it' doesn't cost me an arm and a leg.
 

WMSpecialties

New Member
Where is the report coming from? Many traffic scripts do not actually give the real usage of bandwidth. If you look at an unmetered view of a limited connection, it can better describe the real GB of transfer.
 

hottweelz

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WMSpecialties said:
Where is the report coming from? Many traffic scripts do not actually give the real usage of bandwidth. If you look at an unmetered view of a limited connection, it can better describe the real GB of transfer.
You're saying not to trust WHM? Or similar control panel on a server?
 
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